Bart
- Thread starter Ajshooter
- Start date
Jeff,
I'm running a 268 neck and mostly a 264 button. Occasionally I'll use a 263. My brass is turned to 11.3
Bart
jackie schmidt
New member
Bart's answer reflects what many shooters have turned to in the past years. A little more neck clearance is better than a little less.
Years ago, the trend was "super precision" neck fits. It was not uncommon to see shooters running as little as .0005 total loaded round neck to chamber clearance. Shooters shot lower pressures, did not full length size cases, and due to the spring back of the neck, did not even have to resize the neck.
But with the advent of new powders, (N133 in particular), and shooters exploring "the upper load window", more clearance, around .002 total neck clearance of a loaded round, was the order of the day, and now seems to be trend.
Jack Neary alludes to this in his excellent articles on winning with N133.
For what it is worth, I shoot a .269 neck in my 6PPC, and .330 neck in my 30BR.
I shoot .002 clearance in both when measuring the loaded round at the largest portion of the neck, which will be at the base of a Flatbase Bullet, and the body to boat tail junction in a Boat Tail bullet,
Stilesville204
New member
Hi Jackie
I'm sure it's well known to most shooters on here, but what are the reasons for going away from the previous .262 standard to a thicker neck dimension. Is it because the .262 is more fragile, is it easier to do a more accurate job turning when removing less brass ?
Thanks
Robert
I'm sure it's well known to most shooters on here, but what are the reasons for going away from the previous .262 standard to a thicker neck dimension. Is it because the .262 is more fragile, is it easier to do a more accurate job turning when removing less brass ?
Thanks
Robert
jackie schmidt
New member
The .262 neck is a product of the brass that was used back when the PPC concept was first invented. The brass required a .262 turning in order to clean up all the way. Or at least, that is the way the story goes.
Things are different now. I feel like I am instrumental in the larger neck diameter using Lapua .220 Russian brass because I am one of the shooters who had a reasonable amount of success with a .269 neck.
Years ago, I was ordering a new reamer from Dave Kiff, and he asked me why we tuned so much brass from a Lapua 220 Russian case when making a 6PPC. I told him to give me a few minutes, and I would call him back on that.
I went and necked up a 220 Lapua case and seated a bullet. It measured darned near .271.
So I called Dave, and told him to grind me a reamer with a .269 neck. Guess what? It worked. Turning necks became an easy one pass affair.
But since multitudes of shooters were already invested in everything surrounding the .262 neck, it was slow to catch on. But as time has passed, there are many shooters using larger diameter necks than .262. How much larger really comes down to personal choice.
But, let me emphasize. I see no difference in accuracy, or case longevity, between. .262 and a .269 neck. In my opinion, it is solely a matter of ease in making cases.
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Stilesville204
New member
Thanks Jackie
Tim Singleton
Member
I've only been shooting a PPC for 3-4 years so take this for what it's worth which may not be a lot.
I do practice and shoot quite a bit I've used up several barrels over the last few years. I started out with a .262 NK then went to a .268 just to see if there was anything I was leaving off. The only thing I can see a difference in is over the course of a 4 gun competition the 268 neck tension or bullet seating force seems to hold up better over multiple firings and sizing than the 262 does. I could tell it took less force to seat the bullet toward the end of a 4 gun match. I would go to a smaller bushing.
I can't get a handle on N133 so I don't shoot it much. But I do think the 268 offers a little more bullet hold if you are trying to load 30 plus grains of 133. The 262 doesn't seem to hold the bullet when compressing a load like that especially after multiple firings middle or end of a match when you need it most
All that said I don't think I would ever go back to the 262.
I do practice and shoot quite a bit I've used up several barrels over the last few years. I started out with a .262 NK then went to a .268 just to see if there was anything I was leaving off. The only thing I can see a difference in is over the course of a 4 gun competition the 268 neck tension or bullet seating force seems to hold up better over multiple firings and sizing than the 262 does. I could tell it took less force to seat the bullet toward the end of a 4 gun match. I would go to a smaller bushing.
I can't get a handle on N133 so I don't shoot it much. But I do think the 268 offers a little more bullet hold if you are trying to load 30 plus grains of 133. The 262 doesn't seem to hold the bullet when compressing a load like that especially after multiple firings middle or end of a match when you need it most
All that said I don't think I would ever go back to the 262.
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Tim Singleton
Member
LT32 90% of the time. I just can't get a handle on 133.
Tim Singleton
Member
Ask your smith about freebore. Shooting a 68gr I would look for .060
.005 one way or the other from that IMO would be good
Dave Rabin
New member
How far down the neck do you size?
This is a great discussion, and while we're on the subject of neck tension, I'd like to ask this:
How far down the neck do you size? The full portion of the bullet's bearing surface that's in the neck? Less than that? More?
The reason I ask: I started a thread recently at accurateshooter.com about full-length bushing dies vs. standard FL dies. You can see it here: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/standard-fl-die-vs-bushing-fl-die.3912251/
In the latter part of that thread, there are posts discussing the roles played by (1) bushing size and (2) how far down the neck one sizes, in terms of the amount of tension exerted on the bullet.
Thank you,
Dave Rabin
This is a great discussion, and while we're on the subject of neck tension, I'd like to ask this:
How far down the neck do you size? The full portion of the bullet's bearing surface that's in the neck? Less than that? More?
The reason I ask: I started a thread recently at accurateshooter.com about full-length bushing dies vs. standard FL dies. You can see it here: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/standard-fl-die-vs-bushing-fl-die.3912251/
In the latter part of that thread, there are posts discussing the roles played by (1) bushing size and (2) how far down the neck one sizes, in terms of the amount of tension exerted on the bullet.
Thank you,
Dave Rabin
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I am currently using Harrell's dies and they let the neck bushing size about 80% of the neck. My freeborn is such that most 0 825 jacket flat base bullets seat about 70% of the neck. Most boat tails slightly less of the diam.
In your tuning process you can have many different seating scenarios and neck tensions that can make accurate loads. The issue here is to find what works best with tour barrel/bullet/powder. There is no firm fixed answer.
.
tim
i am, suprised you find 133 difficult! Im not sure i ever did find it all that complicated. I also like the LT powders but 133 has always given me the smallest aggs. wish you lived closer, we could work this subject a bit. What i have always found the most difficult is keeping myself calm and gun handling sloppiness, While at the matches that is. I love slapping that trigger. LOL
I have also found that the ppc trend is moving to a thicker neck. Most of the ppc barrels i am chambering in the shop are at least .265 here lately. I have a couple shooters who shoot no turn necks, and they shoot great groups with it.
i am, suprised you find 133 difficult! Im not sure i ever did find it all that complicated. I also like the LT powders but 133 has always given me the smallest aggs. wish you lived closer, we could work this subject a bit. What i have always found the most difficult is keeping myself calm and gun handling sloppiness, While at the matches that is. I love slapping that trigger. LOL
I have also found that the ppc trend is moving to a thicker neck. Most of the ppc barrels i am chambering in the shop are at least .265 here lately. I have a couple shooters who shoot no turn necks, and they shoot great groups with it.
jackie schmidt
New member
Skeet, I put together a no neck turn rail gun barrel last spring, (.274), and it shot as good as anything I had.
I chickened out, though, and went with my standard .269 for the season.
Tim Singleton
Member
I've just at this point anyway never been able to get to a teen agg or win anything with 133 maybe you can help me.
I have had better experiences with Lt
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I'm the same...except I use 322. I'm pretty sure we're not puttin' enough 133 in the case to make it work.
jackie schmidt
New member
Wilbur, most of the shooters I know who have success with 133 shoot it at 3400+ FPS with a typical 65-68 grn bullet. That means 30+ grns of powder, depending on the barrel brand.
There are shooters who do shoot it in the lower Load Windows, with success. I personally do not know how they do it.