typically anti-seize has big hunks of ground up metal in it. Plays hell with the abutting surfaces
Barrel torque
- Thread starter ArtinNC
- Start date
typically anti-seize has big hunks of ground up metal in it. Plays hell with the abutting surfaces
perhaps it also needs to be said that Pandas are a class unto themselves.... I would never run over 100ftlb on a Panda and never even consider an outside wrench. I once built a big magnum on a LH Kodiak and I went to absurd lengths in my quest to ensure lockup of the barrel joint. This is not to knock Ralph's design but I will never again do a Kodiak and all Pandas I build will be glue-ins. I have a screwed Panda on a 17lb setup and I've milled crosshatched grooves all over the bottom and rebated the screw holes.... and my next step is to install studs
Dave Tooley
Active member
I'm pretty sure the threaded inserts in Kelbly actions are CM. Kind of negates the need for anti seize. Once I started making my threads a little on the loose side I never had another problem with SS on SS. I use about 80 ft/lbs for 1.0625 threads
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I used 100 for years
on all the 30 Cal barrels I used and never had an issue with stuck barrels. I once bought a rifle that had a copper type antiseize, it looked like, on the threads and I liked that, I must say. I have had issues with the regular antizeize drying out in the past or that is t say, it made me uneasy but it prolly was Ok. I used a specific torque simply because I never believe "snapping" them no was adequate and wanted a Benchmark and or standard to rely on so that I knew-----.
Stiller posted on here a specific torque he had researched and said he had been able to use that value to take flyers out of some rifles. To me, that would seem a very good reason to always torque.
Pete
on all the 30 Cal barrels I used and never had an issue with stuck barrels. I once bought a rifle that had a copper type antiseize, it looked like, on the threads and I liked that, I must say. I have had issues with the regular antizeize drying out in the past or that is t say, it made me uneasy but it prolly was Ok. I used a specific torque simply because I never believe "snapping" them no was adequate and wanted a Benchmark and or standard to rely on so that I knew-----.
Stiller posted on here a specific torque he had researched and said he had been able to use that value to take flyers out of some rifles. To me, that would seem a very good reason to always torque.
Pete
I generally use a speed fastener driver with a fitting welded on to measure torque from my wrench.
I do not see these for sale anywhere.
A square driver male was welded at one of the bends so another mechanic you use a torque wench after driving
the fastener down barely snug.
Titanium screws in many cases, often flat head for panels
Here is one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273974506934?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=273974506934&targetid=4581183927179145&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418233787&mkgroupid=1241348861725295&rlsatarget=pla-4581183927179145&abcId=9300542&merchantid=51291&msclkid=8dc60e606f4b142011ca6f1f6e236337
Using a powered tool (often air powered) was not judged reliable enough.
A shaft with a rotating shell on one ends, a generous offset in the middle, and a square drive on the other end.
Tools for use on Titanium fasteners and panels do NOT get along well with Chrome plated tools.
All the mechanics tools (and they owned most of the basic tools) had to be etched to remove the plating down to bare steel.
At first it was just SR mechanics, but as time went on more and more titanium panels and fasteners started being used on
the U-2 for addition strength from buffeting.
Titanium ridges on stabilizers to stiffen them up.
The antenna pylon on top shed a lot of 'disturbed air' that impacted the tail.
Vertical and Horizontal stabilizers, the rudder, the shroud and its pylon over the dish antennae on top of the fuselage.
Lockheed developed this for all the screws on the SR-71 that requires loosening and re-torquing after even flight.
The U-2 had plenty of these also.
The huge temp swings from dessert air base to at flight temps gave the panel screws a real workout.
Some screws required replacement after as few as two (2!) flight hours.
That is a single mission for these planes.
I do not see these for sale anywhere.
A square driver male was welded at one of the bends so another mechanic you use a torque wench after driving
the fastener down barely snug.
Titanium screws in many cases, often flat head for panels
Here is one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273974506934?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=273974506934&targetid=4581183927179145&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418233787&mkgroupid=1241348861725295&rlsatarget=pla-4581183927179145&abcId=9300542&merchantid=51291&msclkid=8dc60e606f4b142011ca6f1f6e236337
Using a powered tool (often air powered) was not judged reliable enough.
A shaft with a rotating shell on one ends, a generous offset in the middle, and a square drive on the other end.
Tools for use on Titanium fasteners and panels do NOT get along well with Chrome plated tools.
All the mechanics tools (and they owned most of the basic tools) had to be etched to remove the plating down to bare steel.
At first it was just SR mechanics, but as time went on more and more titanium panels and fasteners started being used on
the U-2 for addition strength from buffeting.
Titanium ridges on stabilizers to stiffen them up.
The antenna pylon on top shed a lot of 'disturbed air' that impacted the tail.
Vertical and Horizontal stabilizers, the rudder, the shroud and its pylon over the dish antennae on top of the fuselage.
Lockheed developed this for all the screws on the SR-71 that requires loosening and re-torquing after even flight.
The U-2 had plenty of these also.
The huge temp swings from dessert air base to at flight temps gave the panel screws a real workout.
Some screws required replacement after as few as two (2!) flight hours.
That is a single mission for these planes.
Last edited:
AMMASHOOTA
Gary Gruber
I built a 404 Jeff for myself a couple of years ago and put the barrel on at around 100 ft lbs. Being 72 and having a torn rotator cuff, I can only shoot a very lightweight 2025 fps load. The rifle handles it well. If I were to build one for someone using Superman loads up to 2600 ft lbs, I might be inclined to go a bit higher.
How the barrel abuts the receiver also matters.
Some commercial actions have a tapered seat.
Other BR actions have a square seat.
Taper allows the action to be tightened up enough to discourage the
owner from unscrewing the barrel.
Think of it as "GI proofing" the gun.
Square allows a relatively smaller torque to be used and have headspace
be very consistent.
Some commercial actions have a tapered seat.
Other BR actions have a square seat.
Taper allows the action to be tightened up enough to discourage the
owner from unscrewing the barrel.
Think of it as "GI proofing" the gun.
Square allows a relatively smaller torque to be used and have headspace
be very consistent.
"headspace" isn't even a small part of the equation..... not even relevant to why I tighten as I do. In any event headspace has very little to do with tightness as torque can only vary the headspace a thou and to most people getting it within a thou is not only "close enough" but is the Holy Graile ............ and headspace has zero effect on inherent accuracy.
I just checked a customer's 300PRC this morning that is 12 thou over where I'd have set it but I told him it was perfectly safe to fire.
It might not always fire..... but if it does, it's "safe."
It's a custom-built $3000.00 rifle and I predict it'll shoot under 2moa and I furthermore predict that the fellow shooting it will never know the difference!
AMMASHOOTA
Gary Gruber
Won't he notice when goes to resize his brass?
As I said..... this is a customer's rifle brought in off the street, built by a "custom gun builder" with his name on it and everything. I get in a lot of these when the folks who buy them go out and use them...
As far as the reloading, whereas I send out a gun with dies and a 70* base load, every other builder I know (except a couple BR builders) just ignores the die situation. Or sells a set of factory dies with the rifle.
This whole die-to-rifle fit thing is just being glossed over by most gun sellers, or is misunderstood.
And in the mean time we've a group of mentally challenged orange-man-bad thinkers on the internet who are howling that "neck-size only dies are the devil's work"
Funny really, but not funny if you're a bright, insightful consumer. This blind-leading-the-blind crowd is giving us, the shooting/building community a black eye but are still chugging along merrily because MOST buyers are buying a feeling, not a fact. Many Ford/Chevy/Dodge guys out there get their kicks from showing each other their guns.... just like most Ford/Chevy/Dodge owners buy trucks to look at....... most 4X4's have never been off-road and the owners have no idea if they're 'good' or not.
As far as the reloading, whereas I send out a gun with dies and a 70* base load, every other builder I know (except a couple BR builders) just ignores the die situation. Or sells a set of factory dies with the rifle.
This whole die-to-rifle fit thing is just being glossed over by most gun sellers, or is misunderstood.
And in the mean time we've a group of mentally challenged orange-man-bad thinkers on the internet who are howling that "neck-size only dies are the devil's work"
Funny really, but not funny if you're a bright, insightful consumer. This blind-leading-the-blind crowd is giving us, the shooting/building community a black eye but are still chugging along merrily because MOST buyers are buying a feeling, not a fact. Many Ford/Chevy/Dodge guys out there get their kicks from showing each other their guns.... just like most Ford/Chevy/Dodge owners buy trucks to look at....... most 4X4's have never been off-road and the owners have no idea if they're 'good' or not.
I feel your pain. I did this one for a good pal several years ago. He wants to do his own maintaining on it and wanted advice on how much to 'torque' the action screws down. I showed him how to get the barrelled action in and out, seat the recoil lug and tighten the action screws on my pillar bedding job with an Allen wrench. Bada bing, bada boom. Done, right?
He calls yesterday and said he bought a good torque wrench. Problem was that he bought a lbs/ft. one rather than an inch/lb. wrench. At 50 lbs./ft., the Allen recess in the front action screw decided it had enough and rolled over.
So there I am this morning......
AMMASHOOTA
Gary Gruber
Most of the work I do is on handguns -- the guys at our local gun club are pistol oriented. I've lost track of the number of pistol I had to 'fix' after nationally known gunsmiths (one a manufacturer of pistol barrels that begins with Bar-xxx) had manhandled the firearms so badly that I had to replace quite a few parts.
I give unqualified shooters the benefit of the doubt after having watched so many 'pros' screw things up.
I had one friend try to do a trigger job on his own 1911, and ended up getting DQ'ed on the first stage when it went full auto on him.