Centerfire
Member
Pete, Thank you and all the others for your replys. I now know about why the pits are in one of the barrels.
I checked Midway USA regarding the KG2 you reference and they only show a KG12. Could this be the same product?
Centerfire
Barrel internals, wht do you see?
- Thread starter Centerfire
- Start date
Pete, Thank you and all the others for your replys. I now know about why the pits are in one of the barrels.
I checked Midway USA regarding the KG2 you reference and they only show a KG12. Could this be the same product?
Centerfire
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Donald
Guest
I clean my 6ppc normally between each target. If I go more than about 25-30 rounds without cleaning I can see the difference, even as bad as I shoot. But on my 30BR I learned the hard way that cleaning it too often is really bad juju. If I clean the 30 it will take at least 12 rounds for it to settle down. I start a match with the 30 dirty and never clean until the match is over. Don't have a clue as to why it is this way but I know others that never clean a 30 during a match. I am still wondering why this is so.
Donald
Donald
A
amamnn
Guest
Whether I shoot foulers from a squeaky clean barrel or from a barrel that is ? clean makes a difference. I think we can all agree that we aim for uniformity in loading and shooting as a must in this game. If I start from a known perfectly clean barrel I think I have an advantage over starting with a partly pre-fouled to ?whatever? extent barrel. If someone can tell me how to reliably determine how fouled a barrel is through the use of psychics or divining rods or whatever guesswork I would like to hear it. I am not a naturally gifted shooter and I am too old to change my ways now. If I can use a tool to eliminate a variable, I will use it.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Pete Wass
Well-known member
On Cleaning:
I don't over clean I don't believe. I shoot an entire day's match and clean at home normally. I shoot only 30 Cal rifles so I am a bit weary of opining on smaller bore rifles. I suspect they may foul faster and that they may be more sensative to carbon build up but I don't know. I once owned a 6 PPC but never fired it.
My thinking is and I believe my cleaning has proven to me that unless one removes the carbon from their barrel, over time, it becomes baked on in layers and I can't believe that, over a long period of time, this can be a good thing. That is why I remove it after around 100 rounds have been shot through them now. From my experience, since having a bore scope, No liquid solvent that does not have abrasive content will take the carbon out after having shot 100 Rds through it. This is all I am saying here.
I recently purchased a rifle with a barrel that some might say was "Fire Cracked" beyond usefulness. I was able to remove all of the "Firecracking" in very little time using the KG2 and a bronze brush; perhaps 30 strokes of the brush going both in and out or 60 strokes I guess. I am quite certain the barrel never had a thurough cleaning prior to the one I gave it.
I find that my rifles are all over the place with regard to where they place the first bullet out of a clean barrel. Often they will throw the first one high. My first one usually goes into the berm away from the target frame since I know pretty much where it is going. A couple of barrels I have or have had will place the first, second and subsequent bullets in or near the same hole, when things are going well.
I don't over clean I don't believe. I shoot an entire day's match and clean at home normally. I shoot only 30 Cal rifles so I am a bit weary of opining on smaller bore rifles. I suspect they may foul faster and that they may be more sensative to carbon build up but I don't know. I once owned a 6 PPC but never fired it.
My thinking is and I believe my cleaning has proven to me that unless one removes the carbon from their barrel, over time, it becomes baked on in layers and I can't believe that, over a long period of time, this can be a good thing. That is why I remove it after around 100 rounds have been shot through them now. From my experience, since having a bore scope, No liquid solvent that does not have abrasive content will take the carbon out after having shot 100 Rds through it. This is all I am saying here.
I recently purchased a rifle with a barrel that some might say was "Fire Cracked" beyond usefulness. I was able to remove all of the "Firecracking" in very little time using the KG2 and a bronze brush; perhaps 30 strokes of the brush going both in and out or 60 strokes I guess. I am quite certain the barrel never had a thurough cleaning prior to the one I gave it.
I find that my rifles are all over the place with regard to where they place the first bullet out of a clean barrel. Often they will throw the first one high. My first one usually goes into the berm away from the target frame since I know pretty much where it is going. A couple of barrels I have or have had will place the first, second and subsequent bullets in or near the same hole, when things are going well.
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Not being a smart ass, -- how do you start a match with a dirty barrel if you clean it after each match? I ask because I'd like to do this too -- do you just use the warmup as fouling time? (Won't work for me, as a lot of the matches I shoot don't have a warmup match). Given my bad memory, I clean after a match, and just to make sure I didn't forget, before too.
D
Donald
Guest
Charles, reread my post #23. I said I clean my 6mm after each match or target. I start the match with my 30BR with a dirty barrel. I will fire about 10-12 rounds thru it before I go to the match and just leave it dirty.
Greg Walley
Member
Jerry...well said! I think some of the guys forget that these borescopes magnify quite a bit - making incidental inclusions look like the Grand Canyon.
From post #23. I'd take that sentence as at least implying you clean after the match . . .
But you answered my question, sort of. My problem is a lot of 1K matches I shoot, you can't fire that many foulers at the range before the match, or even during the sighter period -- they keep pulling your target to mark it . . . also, with a big chambering, that would be a lot of heat, 'cause you'd need sighters too.
I do take your point, though.
rooshooter
New member
As for barrel cleanliness and accuracy, each barrel is a law unto its self. My favourite 2 barrels are worlds apart. My 7mm (284 F class rifle)wont shoot until it has been fouled with at least 8-10 shots, then will tack hole for 150 rounds or so. It starts to shoot, when the carbon streaks are nice and even along all lands, the whole way along the barrel. For the 1st few shots from a clean barrel, the carbon streaks stop and start, and accuracy is all over the place. When they all join together, it is right to go and win big shoots.
My 6 Dasher only needs 1 fouler (which is in the 10 ring out to 3-500yds), then will tackhole for 24 shots (no, not 26 shots, it is predictable with that). Once it starts to get carbon streaks, it stops shooting.
Now that I know what my top barrels like, I havent used the borescope much lately, but as soon as I start messing with some new barrels, or have problems, I will grab it.
My 6 Dasher only needs 1 fouler (which is in the 10 ring out to 3-500yds), then will tackhole for 24 shots (no, not 26 shots, it is predictable with that). Once it starts to get carbon streaks, it stops shooting.
Now that I know what my top barrels like, I havent used the borescope much lately, but as soon as I start messing with some new barrels, or have problems, I will grab it.
D
Donald
Guest
Charles,
The big difference here is that I was talking about a 30BR which is certainly not a 1K rifle. I only shoot it at 100/200 yds. For instance I went to the range the other day and shot 25 rounds thru the 30BR. I left it dirty. Tonight I pushed a dry patch thru the barrel. It came out with only a smidge of gray on it. Pushed another thru and it was almost clean. The barrel is unusually clean. I will leave it that way for the upcoming match this weekend. I am only burning about 34 gains of H4198 whereas with a 1K rifle you are probably burning twice that amount. Why the 30BR does not like to be cleaned often I don't have a clue. Something to do with the case volume to bore capacity I would guess and the fast burning powder. My personal opinion is that the 6ppc is a bit overbore. I think Gene Beggs has it nailed with his 6Beggs, which is nothing but the 220 russian case necked up to 6mm. It holds about 27 grains of powder, H4198 if I remember right. I would just bet that Genes barrel stays clean longer than a 6ppc. But that is just a guess.
Donald
Bob Kingsbury
New member
FWIW :: unlike other barrels I have, a kreiger 30BR and a shilen 6ppc need very little
cleaning. Both use H-4198 and can be fired many times. I think there is
something to the powder.
cleaning. Both use H-4198 and can be fired many times. I think there is
something to the powder.
N
nhkuehl
Guest
I traded labor with a friend and yesterday cleaned a used T/C Encore .300 Win Mag barrel he'd bought. The guy told him he'd never cleaned it.... I bore scoped it and it was green inside. I spent 5 hours on it with Sweets (and peroxide), Eliminator, Butches, Kroil & JB Bore paste and brushing and finally got it to bare metal. I checked progress with the borescope. There is fire cracking in the throat and a few pitts from corrosion in the bore and some ugly button rifling. It's going to continue to foul. - nhk
Charles,
The big difference here is that I was talking about a 30BR which is certainly not a 1K rifle. I only shoot it at 100/200 yds. For instance I went to the range the (other day and shot 25 rounds thru the 30BR. I left it dirty. Tonight I pushed a dry patch thru the barrel. It came out with only a smidge of gray on it. Pushed another thru and it was almost clean. The barrel is unusually clean. I will leave it that way for the upcoming match this weekend. I am only burning about 34 gains of H4198 whereas with a 1K rifle you are probably burning twice that amount. Why the 30BR does not like to be cleaned often I don't have a clue. Something to do with the case volume to bore capacity I would guess and the fast burning powder. My personal opinion is that the 6ppc is a bit overbore. I think Gene Beggs has it nailed with his 6Beggs, which is nothing but the 220 russian case necked up to 6mm. It holds about 27 grains of powder, H4198 if I remember right. I would just bet that Genes barrel stays clean longer than a 6ppc. But that is just a guess)
A good friend of mine on here told me something one time that made a lot of sense. It goes something Like this. If your rifle talks to you and tells you what it likes and doesn't like just go with it. You don't always have to know why. if the rifles says it likes to have a dirty barrel then shoot it dirty!!! Let the rifle tell you what it wants!!! Lee
The big difference here is that I was talking about a 30BR which is certainly not a 1K rifle. I only shoot it at 100/200 yds. For instance I went to the range the (other day and shot 25 rounds thru the 30BR. I left it dirty. Tonight I pushed a dry patch thru the barrel. It came out with only a smidge of gray on it. Pushed another thru and it was almost clean. The barrel is unusually clean. I will leave it that way for the upcoming match this weekend. I am only burning about 34 gains of H4198 whereas with a 1K rifle you are probably burning twice that amount. Why the 30BR does not like to be cleaned often I don't have a clue. Something to do with the case volume to bore capacity I would guess and the fast burning powder. My personal opinion is that the 6ppc is a bit overbore. I think Gene Beggs has it nailed with his 6Beggs, which is nothing but the 220 russian case necked up to 6mm. It holds about 27 grains of powder, H4198 if I remember right. I would just bet that Genes barrel stays clean longer than a 6ppc. But that is just a guess)
A good friend of mine on here told me something one time that made a lot of sense. It goes something Like this. If your rifle talks to you and tells you what it likes and doesn't like just go with it. You don't always have to know why. if the rifles says it likes to have a dirty barrel then shoot it dirty!!! Let the rifle tell you what it wants!!! Lee
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Waylan Kisor
Guest
My bottle has KG12 on it. If you go to Petes site on KG products and go to page 5 you will see "KG12". From their description it is intended for big bores ie tank cannons. I don't thind a 4 oz. bottle wold do the job.
Centerfire
Member
Dear Wayne, Thanks for the update. I checked the web site and see they have many products numerically listed.
Just a brief up date for individuals such as myself who are thinking about a buying borescope. You have just got to love cleaning.
I'm on barrel No. 7 and these SS barrels seem to get layered with carbon and copper which require scrubbing with USP, JB, etc.
Then a soak with Butches and another scrubbing. I have found the hardest area to clean is the root of the land where it meets the groove. About 5 scrubs is removing all the fowling so far. Onward to the carbon steel barrels.
Note to Jackie; Your so right about taking the borescope to the range.
Centerfire
Just a brief up date for individuals such as myself who are thinking about a buying borescope. You have just got to love cleaning.
I'm on barrel No. 7 and these SS barrels seem to get layered with carbon and copper which require scrubbing with USP, JB, etc.
Then a soak with Butches and another scrubbing. I have found the hardest area to clean is the root of the land where it meets the groove. About 5 scrubs is removing all the fowling so far. Onward to the carbon steel barrels.
Note to Jackie; Your so right about taking the borescope to the range.
Centerfire
Centerfire
Member
For those that are interested. In Precision Shooting this month there is an article about a .22 Ruger with a Shelin barrel that the owner bore scopes and explains what he see. As Al (in WA)and Gerry M stated this author agrees that they are inclusions in the barrel steel usually caused by Sulfur. Both in CM and SS barrels.
Regarding another point about the Maglite that comes with the Hawkeye. I did a search and there is an upgrade from the incondescent light bulb to a 3 LED setup. I found it at Lowes for $7.00. www.NiteIze.com
Centerfire
Regarding another point about the Maglite that comes with the Hawkeye. I did a search and there is an upgrade from the incondescent light bulb to a 3 LED setup. I found it at Lowes for $7.00. www.NiteIze.com
Centerfire