Barrel accuracy or barrel life

Nat,

Yes Crucible Materials Corp. filled for bankruptcy May 6, 2009 and shut down shortly there after. The Syracuse operations were purchased and reopened as Crucible Industries LLC on November 18, 2009 with the former products becoming available based on the demand. They announced a 3% increase in the price of stainless steel bar products April 23rd "due to increased demand as restocking to former inventory levels continues".

Back last May their Milwaukee service center told me that they had a large inventory of 416R bar to support the barrel makers and further that the barrel makers had significantly increased their own inventories in light of the announced bankruptcy.

It concerns me that the long idle period and slow ramp-up could lead to quality issues for a while. However I am not a barrel maker and would also like to see the comments on the situation from the barrel makers. Particularly John Krieger (Krieger Barrels) and Frank Green (Bartlein barrels).
 
Butch Is Correct

Black Star Barrels were made by Lothar, from the L-50 alloy.

To see why many accuracy minded shooters just said "no", all you had to do was take a look at their recommended chambering procedures as laid out in their Website. Good Grief. Most just said, 'you gotta be kidding'.........jackie
 
Crucible is Alive and well . I live here in the area,
I also worked there for a short time in the melt shop and heat treat.
I'm sure crucible will be Ok now.
I have heard of a hardening process called jtech. Some place in texas that use to harden 416R I was told about it from one of Speedys friends.
He claimed double the barrel life with the treatment. It supposedly cost about $80 to $90 .
I'm not sure what Jack was working on as to harder Barrel stock. He hasen't said much about it.
 
The reason i threw 410 into the mix is that i strongly suspect that there are barrel makers using it and have done so for a while. Cryo or other treatment processes cannot explain away the vast difference in threading and profiling machining that i am seeing. Some threads cut clean and swarf nicely whereas others leave rough textures and hard spots like what Nat has suggested. The reaming is the give away where 410 is just flat harder on reamers, if that is what it is. Forget the PPC chambers, when you ream a 300 Ackley chamber with all that length, you feel and hear the change.

Tony Z.
 
The discussion of accuracy vs barrel life reminds me of my friend George commenting on the tires delivered on his new Honda bike. "They're too hard. Won't stick in the dry. Won't stick in the rain. The worst thing is it looks like they'll last for ever."
 
Tony

I think you might be right. As a Machinist, I can tell the difference between the machinability of various steels, especially when threading.

I did a new 30 caliber blank in 30BR for one of our Club Match Shooters a while back, and the first thing it did was burn the edge off of my drill that I use to remove much of the stock from the chamber. Then, when threading, it produced those long, non broken stringy shavings, rather than the usual spiral that 416R produces.

The barrel was a premium blank, from one of the big Manufacturers. And, by all accounts, it shoots great.

But, what ever it was, it was not 416 R. Probably 410........jackie
 
Kreiger did some 410 for awhile on their thinner contour barrels. They went back to 416R and do not sell the thin hunting barrels in stainless.
Butch
 
virg said:
Black Star (I think I've got this right) claimed three times the barrel life for their $900 barrels. ...
Virg
Click to expand...

I bought a couple of Blackstar barrels. The price was a little higher than any other makers stainless match barrels, but more like about $300 to 350 at the time. Don't remember for sure how much they were for sure, but other barrel makes were selling for around $200 to 250. One barrel was for a customer in 6 PPC. He said it shot well. Mine was also a 6 PPC. It was just a so so accurate barrel. Don't know about life span on it as it wasn't good enough to worry about how long it would last. I didn't have any problem chambering them, but did use the Moly Dee for lube as they recommended. That is some nasty stuff to use as it's very messy as just about anything is that has moly in it.
 
I think....

Mike Bryant said:
I bought a couple of Blackstar barrels. The price was a little higher than any other makers stainless match barrels, but more like about $300 to 350 at the time. Don't remember for sure how much they were for sure, but other barrel makes were selling for around $200 to 250. One barrel was for a customer in 6 PPC. He said it shot well. Mine was also a 6 PPC. It was just a so so accurate barrel. Don't know about life span on it as it wasn't good enough to worry about how long it would last. I didn't have any problem chambering them, but did use the Moly Dee for lube as they recommended. That is some nasty stuff to use as it's very messy as just about anything is that has moly in it.
Click to expand...

Mike, I think the very expensive version came at the last edition before they sold out the manufacturing rights. They claimed that even though the barrels were roughly three times the cost, the extra life span and accuracy retention would more than make up for it.
 
Hey Butch

I think you can remember back in about 1998, or there abouts, that we had a Registered Match at The American Shooting Center in Houston. The people from Black Star showed up, with a big awning, and an impressive layout. The had a Shooter who was, I guess, their "Factory" driver. He was telling everybody that he fully expected to wipe the slate clean.

Well, if I remember correctly, he was in dead last after about the first three groups that morning, and they packed their stuff up and left........jackie
 
I had a big discussion with a prominent gunsmith about barrel life and hardness today. I have 2 barrels, one localy made, one from USA which are nice and accurate, dont foul or walk shots or anything, most accurate barrels I have had. The gunsmiths both said they were lovely to machine, cut like butter, but both shot their throats out very early, about 500 rounds (not loaded real hot either). Checking them with a bore scope showed they looked like they had fired thousands of rounds. I have used barrels by the same makers before and after these were made and they didnt seem to be as soft. maybe soft isnt the proper word, as a hardness test might have shown them to be the same as other barrels, maybe it is different alloys in the steel or different heat treatment???
Could it be different localized amounts of sulphur or whatever ingrediants in the portion of molten steel which went into the bar stock from which these barrels were made, while the bar stock which poured 10 seconds earlier had higher than average amounts of whatever ingredients make barrels more or less machinable/erosion proof?
Or could it be slight differences in heat treating in each batch, maybe a barrels location in the heat treating oven???
I,m no metalurgist, have never chambered a barrel, so I,m hoping others here might actualy have a clue.
 
Never Told a Benchrest Whopper

and I'm going to start now.

Ok here goes again try and keep it short this time. I started to get interested in BR in 1971 when I read No 13 'Rifle' I bought that day I only looked at the rifle magazine not the girlie stuff that day. I'm 21 then legal been to Vegas a dozen times girlie shows the whole thing. After I read Rifle 13 I couldn't put the magazine down for weeks until No 14 came out , 2 months apart. I subscribe 3 yrs. After a year I'm drooling every other month waiting for the mail. I start reading BR history I know all the names in 2 years. Meanwhile I'm shooting groups with my rem 722 .222 waiting for the day that I shoot a BR group. Back in 1972 shooting across a canyon practicing wit George Raymond every week, he was a BR shooter still is if he re-coups from the hospital. George is shooting .3's back at 100. I figure I have to shoot something close to say I shot a BR group. One lucky day I shoot a .4. George says if I had a BR gun I would do better. I said where do I buy one. He says you don't you have one built. He leads me to Harvey Miller, my first gunsmith and Mentor. Harvey builds me a gun in1975 it's finished in 77 I go to the Nat's in 77 at Kelbly's. I meet all the guys and on beautiful gal shooter. Of coarse some of you know the gal was then Donna Lee Steckyl later Price. Still see her she lives in So Cal. She came to our BR School at San Gabriel in 2004.
Well I share loading space with Harold Broughton at the 1977 Nats he wins the 3-gun I had a good time.Things getting shorter now. My BR gun got stolen in 1977 I cried, no money to build another one. Heythey left my Hart HV barrel in .222 Rem.

I salt the barrel away from 1977 till 1993 when I came back to BR. My smith then was Bob Sutton. Just bought my Hall PPC. I wanted a 22 PPC Bob says show me the money. I put my 1977 barrel in his hands he smiles. I told him make me a standard 22 PPC LV barrel out this. Bob says I can do that. He had a profiling taper that cut the barrel perfect reducing from a 26" barrel to a 23' barrel from .222 HV to 22 PPC LV in less than a week. He headspaced the barrel and says go sight it in and let me know how close the first shot was to my aiming pt I said under an inch he smiles and says brother go win some trophies.

I shot the 22 PPC LV barrel for probably 2 years won probably 20 Club trophies before I rearranged the Shoot and went registered in 1996 at San Gabriel. Don Jackson buys the barrel light. He looks at everybody's barrel I'm last because I'm the Shoot Director and had no time. The majority of my winning aggs were with Berger 52 grn bullets. My aggs were .22-.2 for 2 yrs. Don says now lets look at the coppered marvel that's been doing all the winning, my barrel. Hey I don't know I can only see the first 3" from the back. Don looks several times he says go clean the barrel you have a sliver of copper 1 inch long maybe a 1/16 wide. Don says congratulations for a 18 year old Hart barrel with 15,000+ bullets through it 99% Berger 52's. I got to get the Range closed and the paper work done, don't think much of barrel lights the some now. Important thing my load was the same always I cleaned the same I practiced every week I sweated BR allot still do.

Since then .22 agg wins the toilet paper I shoot .1's but with my rails. my 22 PPC Hart barrel will still shoot a .23 agg now with close to 20,000 bullets through the barrel. I never throw a barrel away.

What was the question. Oh I think I answered it. Enough of me today I might read some cowboy books and get to bed early. Big day tommorow I setup my underslung Rail Gun for next weeks practice. Ain't life great when you got somethng to do everyday. Have my flags lined up by my pool been looking at flags for 2 days. Good luck Super Shoot guys and gals our toughts are with you.
Done

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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