ASK The EXPERTS..Bedding..and more Bedding??????

F

Frankr

Member
I built a 6BR LV on a haverkamp action,Edge stock(got from mcmillian,Special order). Pac nor 13.75twist(fluted for weight).
so i piller beded it useing havekamps aluminium pillers,and pro bed 2K(witch i do not like)..
had a very nice job done,looks great,seems great..inital testing swowed the rifle wanted to shoot with some low .200 groups in the wind and bordering in the high .100..so some more tuneing and shooting, a shot off here and there i kind of felt i might have a bedding issue..so some investigation showed that no mater how well i bedded it, several times....that a could put some stress on the action when tighting the rear screw..it would seem that shrinkage,seepage,flow or what ever would happen that the rear tang area was a issue..so i said im going to glue it in with JB weld. so rebeded then scuff it up . now here is where it gets weird..i checked the stock over,,seemes good..i hoged out so i could easely get the trigger in from the bottom..i leveled the bottom of the stock..in all directions,put my kelbys rail on my action and leveled the action in the stock..so the bottom of the stock that rides in the bag is level,and the action is level with that.. but it is not level with the top of the stock at all..the barrel is pointed up or the rear of the action is tilted back..but trust me the bottom of the stock is level, in the rest..and straight..all sides.. but it seems the top of the stock is slanted..can even put a level on the sides of the top of the stock and if it was level it would be about the center of the barrel..but because its not makes it look like the barrel is running up hill..I dont know looks a bit weird but im going to shoot it like that and see how it does..well anyhow my nice job is kind of all juked up and bordering on rat chewed.
its kind of been too cold to shoot, but i will fire some next weekend no mater how cold.
 
The bottom of the EDGE is on a taper to the front. This taper starts right ahead of the trigger guard area. If you level the bottom of the action relative to the bottom of the forearm, the action will indeed be tilted to the rear...the barrel will point up. The only parallel area relative to the bottom of the action is the trigger guard mortise and the small standoff area surrounding it. This is very obvious when you look at the stock, but here's a picture to help clarify;

http://www.mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-stocks-benchrest-stock-list.php#edge

A couple of things: Just because a gun is a glue in doesn't mean it's immune to bedding issues. Glue ins need to be done correctly and many require a preliminary bedding job before the final glue in is done. On a bolt in, it's easy to tell when you have a bedding issue. On a glue in...not so easy. I'd hate to guess how many barrels, scopes, etc. have been replaced on glue ins trying to make them shoot when in fact the problem is in the bedding and the glue job. On actions like the Haverkamp that have a relief cut on the bottom to act as a recoil lug and are pillar bedded, you need to make sure that the back cut 'vertical wall' is properly clearanced so it doesn't touch the bedding as well as having proper clearance behind the action tang. If this isn't done, you end up with multiple recoil lug surfaces that can stress the action. You only want one recoil lug surface and that's the front 'wall' of the cut out.

Poorly done bedding (bolt in or glue on) will sometimes still let a gun shoot pretty well, but never up to it's full potential.

Hope this helps. -Al :)
 
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Thanks al..crap.. ya i see that.. Oh well im going to shoot it like that and see how it wants to ride..if i dont like it or wants to jump i will have to break out the heat gun.lol
I kind of went on glued in completely, 100% full contact..with the JB..so i kind of made the action one with the stock..
Im having a 6ppc built, Terry leonard is makeing the stock,,im going to see if he will do the glue in for me..may have the barreled action next month..but i have been planing to shoot this 6BR if i can get it shooting well enough in the first match of the year..if i can get off work.

even though i have full contact with the JB..i did leave the rear of the milled flat free(not touching). but the rear tang and the front of the milled flat is touching.
my theroy is glued it can not move at all so the whole action is the recoil lug..but i dont care for the buzz or vibration in this stock when shooting it..i was kind of hopeing glueing the whole action in would help dampen some vibration..
 
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My comments on the contact area were meant for pillar bedded jobs, not glue ins. I should have clarified that, but I only had a single cup of jave in me when I responded. I've editted my post to clarify this. -Al
 
Mark
Having your barrel run up hill a bit may in fact turn out to be a good thing. The recoil should drive the butt stock down in to the rear bag. I am no pro by any means but i do think most gun builders do have the barrel running up a bit?? I am sure someone more knowledgeable than myself can clear all that up. What do you think of that haverkamp now you have had it for a while? Would you buy another? I think i might?? If i do buy another it will be placed in a tooley MBR and used for a belly gun slash Prairie dog killer. Lee
 
Having the barrel bedded uphill will decrease the buttstock angle, nothing more. As long as it´s still within the rules, it doesn´t hurt. The barrel will always be pointed in the same direction given similar POI, so the only thing bedding uphill or downhill will affect is the buttstock angle.
 
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One little observation...
Most short range benchrest stocks' forends are not parallel to the CL of the bore. While changing the angle of the barreled action will effectively change the toe angle, at the same time it changes the angle of the forend by a like amount. The way that the projection of the bore sweeps the target, and weight transfers on the bags during recoil, is a combination of the two, and their relation to the line of the bore. It has been said that bedding an action higher at the front drives the butt into the rear bag. Perhaps by not having the front drop so much during recoil, less downward momentum is developed by the considerable percentage of the rifles weight in front of the front bag, with a corresponding decrease in the tendency of the butt stock to pop out of the rear bag's ears. I have a rifle that exhibits this fault from time to time if not set up properly. The interesting thing is that there is never evidence of a corresponding low shot on the target which, I believe, says something about the timing of the event relative to the bullet's clearing the muzzle. Some day, when I figure out an easy way to put a temporary (and non damaging) add-on on the part of the forend where the bag makes contact, I intend to do a little experiment to try to determine what the optimal angle is. It seems that they vary from stock to stock. For instance, I think that the EDGE has a flatter than average angle at the front, and perhaps greater at the rear. Others seem to be closer to the rule minimum at the back and angled more steeply upward at the front.
 
Thanks, i'm going to give it a try like it is and see how it acts..I just dont know and have never done it before..so thanks for the info.

skeetlee i do like the action..time will tell if i get it shooting as well as my old rifle(i still have)..I dont know if i will buy another one or not..yea may restock this one to a long range tracker and 6 dasher..lee i tryed to PM you about some stock questions,but never got a reply..I have a 6ppc in the works now, looks a little like yours but will have a
leonard stock..if you know what i'm saying there..
 
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