ARA Rule Proposals

dankillough

dankillough

New member
It is time to vote on the proposed rule changes for the ARA. Each match director will be allowed to vote once and only match directors are allowed to vote. Ballots should be returned to the ARA business office no later than September 7. You may mail in, e-mail in, personally deliver your ballots to Dan Killough, or you may cast your ballot at the ARA National Tournament in St. Louis on Sept. 4th and 5th. Rule proposals will pass if voted in favor of by a simple majority of the ballots cast. A ballot will be sent to each match director either by U.S. mail or e-mail.

2010 ARA Rule Proposals (Please Circle Yes or No below each question)


1. Hall of Fame Points for targets that score between 2400-2450
Yes -- Give 1 HOF point for each 2400-2450 Target
No -- No longer give 1 HOF Point for each 2400-2450 Target



2. Give 1 Hall of Fame Point for a State Tournament winner.
Yes
No


3. Give 1 Hall of Fame Point for each Club Tournament Winner.
Yes
No


4. The Number of Tournaments competed in to qualify for the National A-Line and Aggregate Championship should be more than 2.
Yes
No


5. If Proposition 4 Passes, the number of Tournaments a competitor must participate in to qualify for the National A-Line and Aggregate Championship should be
4
5 (Please circle only one choice)

6. Form a Night Time Division of Outdoor competition. Any Event starting 3:00 PM or later would be considered a night time event and would be kept separate from day time events. Night Time events would have their own A-Line, Agg Line, Records, and club champions.
Yes
No
 
Lets start a civil debate and figure out what is best for the game we love.

Rule Proposal #1
ARA currently gives 1 HOF point to any score between 2400 and 2450. This proposal is to no longer practice that.
Vote YES if you agree that many 2400's are now shot, and it is now too easy to earn a HOF point. In the past, it was very difficult to shoot a 2400, but times have changed and this rule should change as well.
Vote NO if you believe that 2400's are difficult and that accomplishment should be rewarded with a HOF point.

Rule Proposal #2
Give 1 HOF Point to each State Tournament Winner
YES- It is difficult to win a State Tournament and the winner should be rewarded with a HOF point. This also gives more incentive for people to compete in the State Tournaments.
NO- We give out too many HOF points already, and it should be more difficult to get into the Hall of Fame.

Rule Proposal #3
Give 1 HOF point to each Club Tournament Winner
YES- It is difficult to win a Club Tournament and the winner should be rewarded with a HOF point. This also gives more incentive for people to compete in the Club Tournaments.
NO- We give out too many HOF points already, and it should be more difficult to get into the Hall of Fame. Some Club Tournaments only have 4-5 competitors, and that is too easy to deserve a HOF point.

Rule Proposal #4
The Number of Tournaments competed in to qualify for the National A-Line and Aggregate Championship should be more than 2.
YES- A 'National' title should not be awarded to a competitor who only competes at 1 range. 1 range can have 2 clubs and therefore 2 tournaments.
NO- Some ARA clubs are a great distance from other clubs and that would make it very difficult on those competitors to ever qualify for the National titles.

Rule Proposal #5
If Rule Proposal #4 passes, the number of Tournaments a competitor must participate in to qualify for a National title should be
4-This would require a competitor to compete at more than 1 range, but could possibly be only 2 ranges
5- This would require a competitor to compete at more than 1 range, probably 3 ranges but could be 2 ranges if 1 of those ranges had 2 clubs on it and held the state tournament.

Rule Proposal #5
Form a Night Time Division of Outdoor competition. Any event starting 3:00 PM or later would be considered a night time event and would be kept separate from day time events. Night Time events would have their own A-Line, Agg Line, Records, and club champions
YES - Night time events are typically held to take advantage of decreased wind. This typically results in higher aggregates for all competitors and it is not a level playing field for those that only shoot day time events.
NO - Outdoor shooting is outdoor shooting. Many night time events are just as windy as day time events. Many clubs have very high winds during the day and they must shoot at night to get relatively good conditions. This will also increase the workload of the match directors and ARA staff because they will have to separate the two divisions.
 
Rule Proposal #5
Form a Night Time Division of Outdoor competition. Any event starting 3:00 PM or later would be considered a night time event and would be kept separate from day time events. Night Time events would have their own A-Line, Agg Line, Records, and club champions
YES - Night time events are typically held to take advantage of decreased wind. This typically results in higher aggregates for all competitors and it is not a level playing field for those that only shoot day time events.
NO - Outdoor shooting is outdoor shooting. Many night time events are just as windy as day time events. Many clubs have very high winds during the day and they must shoot at night to get relatively good conditions. This will also increase the workload of the match directors and ARA staff because they will have to separate the two divisions.


I think the time Night shoots start should be 6PM or later. Shooting at 3 to 5PM in Texas, is a Death march.
 
Proposal 1, 2 and 3, changes the standards and puts an astrick by every name on the list if you change how it is awarded. Yes, No, No
Proposal 4, I feel anyone can and should make at least one tournament at a range other than their home range to win a national title.
Proposal 6, Conditions are different from place to place and week to week as well as morning to night. Some calm conditions can prove to be harder than a hard blow....No....
 
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I never understood how the HOF points really were awarded, but I agree that any changes that made it easier, would put an * by either those already in the HOF or those just joining. I do know, that the very first members were using stock barreled actions, with custom stocks. Many of the later inductees, accomplished that feat with complete custom rigs. Competing is several different regions should also be a requirement. I still don't understand how some one could possibly feel they should be a National Champion with out at least attending the Nationals, and only shoot at their home range. I think we should add the National's Attendance as requirement for both A-Line and Agg/Line Championships.
 
Proposal # 1 - If changed I'd still consider 2400's-2450's as being an accomplishment that actually a small percentage of shooters are turning in but go to a reduced point system for such. e.g. 1/4 point for a 2400 and 1/2 point for a 2450. Now with that said those who very seldom even Shoot a 2400 they may not like the fact that they don't get the whole point for such. Other option only five targets a year count towards HOF points for 2400-2450 targets. Third option raise the level to get into the HOF and keep the current awarded points.

Proposal #2 & 3 Yes and I'd even increase the points for a state win to 2.

Proposal 4 & 5 A-line doesn't matter with the current system for those that win it have been to plenty of tournaments and ranges. I would base the Agg line on actual # of ranges and make that 4, and I mean 4 different locations, not two clubs out of the same range counting as 2.

Proposal 6 - No - To much to manage. If someone wants to shoot at night then go to ranges that do and/or request the range you shoot at to go to a night schedule.
 
Just my opinion,leave everything just the way it is. The system ain't broke, don't fix it till it is.

Wayne
 
I agree with lion. With the number of clubs and shooters going down and the economic times having it's effect I can't see any of the above rule changes helping in much of anyway. Most of us will fail to meet the 40 card requirement as it is let alone add another version for record keeping.
 
Rule Proposals

Lion I agree with you, and believe Macky's intent was to keep the game simple, that is why there is an A-line for those that like to travel and the Agg-Line for those that can't for whatever reasons. Here's my take on the whole Proposals.

1) Keep it the same, sure there are many who can shoot a lot of these scores throughout the year, but the ones that shoot one here and there I believe is a positive reward for them. So if your worried about to many points I'll agree with Les either raise the bar or put in another tier between the Gold and HOF.

2)&3) I vote yes, that is another positive reward for that achievement.

4)&5) This is where the whole thing arises, no need to even consider the A-Line that's a given. I believe to really be LABELED as the TRUE Agg-Line Champion one must shoot at 5 different clubs and 3 different tournaments of those 5 clubs, no 2 at the same range. For us little people that could be difficult, remember CHANGE is coming, where have I heard this before.

6) Night shoots was another area where there was frustration, but as of now it does not seem like there is, since more clubs are incorporating night shoots in their schedules.

When looking at the past and present Aggs there really isn't a whole lot of folks who shoot more than 40 cards let alone 2 tournaments.
 
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I guess my situation is a little different than most. AT a really good match we have 4 shooters, most times only 2 or 3. Once a month I drive 180 miles south to shoot in Lincoln. The other club in SD is 220 miles north and most times they have 3 card weekday matches like I do in Yankton. The only way to get any shooters. I will never be A/line or Agg-stat/line Champ, they're just numbers to compare myself to other shooters but I love to shoot the matches. I just hate to see the rules get so complicated that it isn't fun for everyone. Once again, just my opinion but mabye will explain why I feel the way I do.

Wayne
 
Platinum! Another 100 points to just double that. You know that is the simplest ting to do to HOF points..........but that can only happen at the Nationals....if any of you folks show up to discuss it then, and only then will ears be perked for 2011 rule proposalls. I'll be there.............will you?

John M. Carper

p.s. I was kidding! Platinum cannot happen at the Nats. Only new rule suggestions can be voted on. I'd personally suggest that NO A-line or Agg/Stat Line win can be awarded without attendance at the Nats. Just my little humble opinion.
 
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Give triple points for a NATS. win and10 HOF. points. This only goes into effect when they move the NATS. to WACO ,TEXAS
 
Carp,
Sometimes what we believe is the right thing to do, is not, yet I respect your humble opinion. I have no problem with whatever proposals are passed this year for next year, It is what it is. Good luck at the Nationals and have fun.

Joe
 
Proposal 1

proposal 1 yes but no provision for HOF for tying record (2500) in proposal. We should be counting wipe outs on 2500 targets for records (on 1 target). HOF points should be allowed for new records (Match Aggregate/2,3,4,6,8 target) untill everyone is shooting 2500 aggs. Change it now and dont worry about an *.
BV
 
Fred J said:
Ever changing rules will kill the sport.
Click to expand...

But Fred the game is changing. Perhaps if we went back to only using equipment and ammo made in 1998 we could keep the 1998 rules. I doubt if 2% of the proposed changes over the years have passed. I agree, many changes don't help. But with all the match directors voting, I don't think there will be any hasty rules changes passed. Hope you and Dorothy are doing well.
 
On further review of the Rules under HOF I dont see need for change to any degree. Fred, have you shot on the new targets with Killough Shooting Sports printed on the bottom? I just ran a match with the new targets and the close 100 will no longer plug. If you stick the plug in it it will be a 50. Ron Elby and I checked it out and communicated with Dan about it. We did a little measuring back 3 or 4 years of targets and came up with .520 for outside measurements. The new targets will be close to .510. As long as everyone at the match is shooting same batch of targets it is not a problem. The old BR50 targets from 1996 measured .515+- for a reference. Feel free to start another thread about this if it gets out of control.
Thanks
BV
 
BV:
Yes, I have shot the new target at Boerne and Waco. I was also aware that there were some later ARA targets that got out by accident, where the 100 ring was closed to .520" than the required .500" Matter of fact, we just just used up our last .500" target and will use the new targets from Killough this weekend.
 
I've noticed a difference. never measured. I noticed printing is much better now (With 2010) targets than targets I ordered in 2009. Brian......you just discovered the multitude of high scores over the last few years JK. No change in ARA rules will fix those large numbers of 2400's. Doesn't matter. A higher class of HOF needs set anyway, before any changes in 2400&+ targets. I just thought looking into an 8Xmagnifier on a light box that crisper lines were great on the new targets. It was harder to discern plugs on the old ones.

John M. Carper
 
2010 ARA Rule Proposals (Please Circle Yes or No below each question)
1. Hall of Fame Points for targets that score between 2400-2450
40 Yes -- Give 1 HOF point for each 2400-2450 Target
13 No -- No longer give 1 HOF Point for each 2400-2450 Target
2. Give 1 Hall of Fame Point for a State Tournament winner.
48 Yes
5 No
3. Give 1 Hall of Fame Point for each Club Tournament Winner.
31 Yes
22 No
4. The Number of Tournaments competed in to qualify for the National A-Line and Aggregate Championship should be more than 2.
25 Yes
28 No
5. If Proposition 4 Passes, the number of Tournaments a competitor must participate in to qualify for the National A-Line and Aggregate Championship should be
34 -4
10-5 (Please circle only one choice)
6. Form a Night Time Division of Outdoor competition. Any Event starting 3:00 PM or later would be considered a night time event and would be kept separate from day time events. Night Time events would have their own A-Line, Agg Line, Records, and club champions.
13- Yes
40- No
 
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