AR-15 bench rest load at 100 and 200 yards

F

ForneyRider

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I have 1:9 twist 20in bull barrel AR.

I am shooting 100 yards and 200 yards with a scope. There is also 50yd and 100 yd with irons.

I have H Varget, H Benchmark, R10x, R15, IMR 3031, IMR 4064, and AA 2230.

My best load has been 21.5gr of R10x at .64in @ 100 yards with 5 shot groups using 55gr Sierra BlitzKing. Also, I had a .688in 10shot group. We are shooting for groups, not bullseye. The fps was ~2800fps. At 200 yards, the loads are over 1.5in.

I have some 69gr SMK and 75gr Hornady BTHP. But with R15, I haven't got under an inch. The 69's and 75's are over 3000 fps, so I may drop the powder charge a grain or so and see if things improve. I looked at Black Hills and their 69gr SMK loads are ~2800fps.

Factory loads have been the best. Federal Power Shok 50gr HP. And these factory loads have had loose necks with bullet slippage.

I am using Remington brass, and Fed 205 primer. A few guys have recommended Wolf magnum primers, but not much luck in finding primers right now.

I've been putting the OAL at 2.25-2.26in for just about all bullets 55gr and up. The 75gr Hornady is pretty close to the 69gr SMK.

Anyone have a recommended powder charge for these bullet sizes with these powders?

Using a loose neck, I was able to scratch my bullets at 2.28in OAL.
 
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since you say this is benchrest shooting...i will answer, this typically belongs in the factory hybrid forum.

seat bullets to touch the lands....if nothing left in the case get a longer bullet.( you will need about .2 of bullet body at .003 neck tension)

establish aprox .003 neck tension....this probably means bushing dies.

get a SLED.....single loading device....dont worry about mag length ammo.

add a flat to the bottom of the hand guard.....free float tube.(3x 6-8 inches)

get some wind flags....3-4 pcs of rebar with surveyors tape is a good start.
( see guys, i have learned something here).
go practice reading the wind at your range....shoot in like conditions....practice practice.

how did you come up with 2800fps with 21.5 rl10x and the sie 55 ??
a 1/9 is a COMPROMISE twist, you need a 1/14.

the large group at 200 is not using wind flags....or the nut behind the trigger.

my references: my br ar15 ags in the high 1's.(.19x")

mike in co
 
Those are excellent groups you have there. Proof positive that a semi-auto can be accurate.

Yep, wind was all over the place, but I figured it was good practice. Mirage was a nightmare for my dad looking through a 6-18x scope, but I was fine at 14x.

The R10x loads were started at 21.5gr, incremented .5gr up to the Alliant site's max for a 55gr. The 21.5gr gave me the best accuracy .688in 10-shot at 100 yards. So I used that load for the 5-shot, figuring I could get in top 3.

The best shooter hit .253in with 1:8 twist with 50gr Nosler BT's and Varget.

I am using a front rest (Twin rest) and rear Protektor bag. The stock is wobbling around quite a bit. I'll look into something to go on the bottom as well as the single feed follower.

I am setting up 2 new loads, the 53gr Sierra with Benchmark and the 60gr Sierra HP with R15. Varget has started showing up, so I picked up 3 lbs. I wonder how their lot to lot consistency is now that ADI is so popular.

Primers are still limited to Fed 205. But I see Midway is showing in stock for several brands this week. Wolf is getting a lot of thumbs up.

Thanks for all the help.
 
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well I can't confirm the .19 group, the .253 group is on the highroad.org site with photos and some sort of computer software plotting.

I think the sub-$1000 AR's should do .5in with good load, optics and trigger, and the higher end rifles like Les Baer should do .25in.
 

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I found something called a Bob sled. I added it to the list along with the Redding dies. I thought I had to shave necks to use bushing dies? If so, is the Sinclair tool good for a beginner?

Haven't found anything commercial for a flat, I was hoping to make a nice top for the rest. I attached a pic of the rest. Yep it's def. not a Sinclair or Hart. Since wobble (groups are wider than tall) is a big issue to better accuracy with this setup, that would be a good next investment. Although, I like the adjustment and the legs are nice and heavy. And I'd rather blow the money on a scope.
 
Varget works so vary well in all of my uppers. I'm rather surprised you haven't tried it. I stay with Berger bullets, because they work out vary well.
 
ForneyRider said:
well I can't confirm the .19 group, the .253 group is on the highroad.org site with photos and some sort of computer software plotting.

I think the sub-$1000 AR's should do .5in with good load, optics and trigger, and the higher end rifles like Les Baer should do .25in.
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i did not say 'GROUP" , I said AG.
for those that have watched this site ..i have been working on the ar's for 5 yrs or so...part time. there is an ar15,,,hart 1/14 223br,an ar10 krieger 1/15 308win br , and a krieger 6ppc being changed to a 6 beggs. all with 36xbr luepold scopes.

its nice what you think, but spending $2500 on a production ar is a waste of good money if you want to shoot small groups. we all "know" a 0.25 AG will not make it in BENCHREST.

no you do not need to turn necks to use a bushing die, tho a cleanup cut does help( in a stock chamber, removing neck material means more clearance).

i have been told there is stuff on the 6mmppc site for the forearm and the buttstock. I made my front flats from 1/2" al plate.
my avatar is a 0.116 GROUP from my ar10.

mike in co
 
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Try Your Brass and primers 23.1 gr Hodgdon Benchmark 69gr SMK. 2.26"OAL

Also 23.3gr HBM with the 55gr Sierra Blitz.
24.1gr RL 15 good 23.6 23.7 H4895 CCI400 Primers.

My Ar-15 shoots with or better than my bolts and I can put a 40round clip in it and carry it around. Even a Jewel trigger available for them.
 
Much thanks for all this info.

I added the .244 and .245 titanium bushings to the list with the Redding FL Type-S match die set.

I'll give the loads mentioned a go. I burned up all my 55gr Blitz Kings, so I may try the Nosler or V-Max. They are easier to find in 250 packs.

I plan on staying with the A2 stock and stuffing with lead. The PRS is pretty popular, and the JP Rifles wood butt stock is gorgeous.

This match is an informal "internet" match where everyone posts scanned pictures of the target. It is on the honor system and there is no money involved. It was to get people interested in shooting competition. As far as I know, everyone else is using bags/bipod. I shoot from the Twin rest now, but was using Caldwell cheapy plastic thing for load development. It was handy for load development for hunting loads.

I'll check the 6mmbr site for the flat. Again, much thanks.
 
That link.............. Yes, that'll work Rider.

Load data from Viper will help get ya there.... Look real hard at good ole 4895 and 69gr Sierra MK..... Works real well in gas guns and bolt guns...
Varget is real amazing in many cases, behind a 69MK slow but real >good<.!


I'd suggest contacting Mike in CO..... He KNOWS accuracy for these gas guns.


cale
 
I ordered the bushings, dies, and original lead sled.

I am going to try and fashion a bag on the rest to prevent some of the wobble and see what improvements can be made until the plate can be made.

I started off using IMR and Alliant powders for rifle and jumped on Varget, but never thought the IMR would fit in the .223 with top velocity in the smaller bullets. Hopefully the Benchmark will be the ticket with <= 55gr and Varget for the heavier bullets.

Much Thanks.
 
mike in co said:
i did not say 'GROUP" , I said AG.


mike in co
Click to expand...

Not to be rude, but it would have been better had you said "group". That I could believe. But if you have an AR15 that will agg in the teens, I'll be damned if I can find any record of it. Which means it wasn't fired in registered competition which means it doesn't mean diddly squat even if it is true. And one can't help but think if you really had a semi auto that agged in the teens you would be famous by now. There should be a whole stack of firewood in your basement and somebody from Colorado that actually shoots benchrest would have heard of you.

I do have to give you credit though. When real benchrest shooters laugh about the guys who say, "yeah my hunting gun will shoot quarter inch all day long", you take it one step further and say you do it with a semi-auto and in the teens! I love a great kneeslapper!


And by the way, a .2500 agg will win a fair number of matches. Of course, if you actually shot benchrest you would have known that. In the match I attended last weekend, the 4 gun winner had an agg in the .3300 range.
 
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goodgrouper said:
Not to be rude, but it would have been better had you said "group". That I could believe. But if you have an AR15 that will agg in the teens, I'll be damned if I can find any record of it. Which means it wasn't fired in registered competition which means it doesn't mean diddly squat even if it is true. And one can't help but think if you really had a semi auto that agged in the teens you would be famous by now. There should be a whole stack of firewood in your basement and somebody from Colorado that actually shoots benchrest would have heard of you by now.

I do have to give you credit though. When real benchrest shooters laugh about the guys who say, "yeah my hunting gun will shoot quarter inch all day long", you take it one step further and say you do it with a semi-auto and in the teens!


And by the way, a .2500 agg will win a fair number of matches. Of course, if you actually shot benchrest you would have known that. In the match I attended last weekend, the 4 gun winner had an agg in the .3000 range.
Click to expand...

you sir are a selfcentered narrow minded IDIOT.
see we all have opinons.....and that is mine.
another opinion of mine is...i don't really care what you believe.
if you spent time on this board with your head not up ur a**, you would have seen the progress i have posted here on my journey with ar platforms. it took nearly 4 yrs to get the rifle to ag under .25, but could not break out of the 2's. i finally tried a slow lot of 8202..and that made the jump to sub 2's.

the really important FACT is that your opinon does not count. you do not make the rules, you do not run the matches i do shoot in. i shoot in club matches at this time. i have reported on those matches, but then since it was not about you, you probably missed it. i have learned with each rifle i have built. i hope that the 6 beggs will be able to make it to a registered match.


what was the 100 yd ag for the lv or hv gun ?...not 4 gun...one gun ??? dont take my statements out of context.


mike in co
 
mike in co said:
you sir are a selfcentered narrow minded IDIOT.
see we all have opinons.....and that is mine.
another opinion of mine is...i don't really care what you believe.
if you spent time on this board with your head not up ur a**, you would have seen the progress i have posted here on my journey with ar platforms. it took nearly 4 yrs to get the rifle to ag under .25, but could not break out of the 2's. i finally tried a slow lot of 8202..and that made the jump to sub 2's.

the really important FACT is that your opinon does not count. you do not make the rules, you do not run the matches i do shoot in. i shoot in club matches at this time. i have reported on those matches, but then since it was not about you, you probably missed it. i have learned with each rifle i have built. i hope that the 6 beggs will be able to make it to a registered match.


what was the 100 yd ag for the lv or hv gun ?...not 4 gun...one gun ??? dont take my statements out of context.


mike in co
Click to expand...



Such a defensive response from you is par for your course and proves my point wonderfully.

I'd rather be an idiot than a phoney, a poser, and a fake. Every post you make should come with a disclaimer that warns everyone that you have no real proof of anything because you are not either IBS or NBRSA competitive.

Since no one I know of that actually shoots benchrest and lives in Colorado has ever seen you shoot, and the ones who actually do know of you say your dealings on this board are totally out of place as you know nothing about competition or benchrest, here is my offer:

Come on down to Grand Junction in October and SHOW us your TEEN AGG with your bloody AR15. I'll even pay for your gas! There, put that in your pipe and smoke it.;) In the meantime, by all means, keep telling us your jokes and keep thinking that REAL benchrest shooters are listening to what you do with your little black gun in some backwater third party club you think is so important. It makes for good laughs!

PS. The match will be an official NBRSA sanctioned match and will be recorded. But there is a catch, you have to be a member of the NBRSA (that stands for the National Benchrest SHooters Association in case you didn't know). I'll bet you'll have to sign up before you shoot if you even have the nuts to show up. Am I right?
 
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goodgrouper said:
Such a defensive response from you is par for your course and proves my point wonderfully.

I'd rather be an idiot than a phoney, a poser, and a fake. Every post you make should come with a disclaimer that warns everyone that you have no real proof of anything because you are not either IBS or NBRSA competitive.

Since no one I know of that actually shoots benchrest and lives in Colorado has ever seen you shoot, and the ones who actually do know of you say your dealings on this board are totally out of place as you know nothing about competition or benchrest, here is my offer:

Come on down to Grand Junction in October and SHOW us your TEEN AGG with your bloody AR15. I'll even pay for your gas! There, put that in your pipe and smoke it.;) In the meantime, by all means, keep telling us your jokes and keep thinking that REAL benchrest shooters are listening to what you do with your little black gun in some backwater third party club you think is so important. It makes for good laughs!

PS. The match will be an official NBRSA sanctioned match and will be recorded. But there is a catch, you have to be a member of the NBRSA (that stands for the National Benchrest SHooters Association in case you didn't know). I'll bet you'll have to sign up before you shoot if you even have the nuts to show up. Am I right?
Click to expand...

like a child you continue, and not read what is in front of you.
what was the winning 100yd ag for lv or hv ?....the facts come back to bite you in the butt.......
two..i did post that i hope the 6 beggs will be shot at a registered match.
see you do not make the rules, you do not tell me what to do. i dont care about your demands.
so here is the inverse of your statements. you are a poser..why because i do not see your name nor your results in my published results.....
now do you see just how stupid you are.
yes i did let my membership lapse...the progress was slow with these guns, so it made no sense, but now that my 1000 yd br rifle is in the works, i will have to renew.
and yes the rest of the bench rest world is watching you make a fool of yourself...keep it up.
before you step in deeper, ask mr robinette what he thinks on my ar10 and his bullets. he has seen the results, but then its posted here...but thats not good enough for you...
mike in co
 
lets get you in deeper.
call hart and see if i actually bought a 1/14 22 twist blank.
call frank white at compass lake engineering and see if he used my custom 223 reamers to chamber the bbl for me.(before i got my lathe)

check with walt berger and see if i bought my bullets from him at the shot show in vegas.

check with the local benchrest shooters that sold me thier luepold 36x br scopes....oh crude that would mean there are bench rest shooters in co that know i exist.


now child, let me ask you...where did I SAY i shot the ag's in registered matches? where did i claim i had a competitive br ar ?
i simply said i have an ar15 that shoots(ag's) in the high 0.19x's.
i shoot at the aurora gun club, that would be on gun club rd in aurora co. est 1948, 1000 members with a waiting list. monthly club br matches.

moly berger/sie 52/53's, fed match primers, a slow lot of 8202, between 3500/3600 fps.
you need the lot number of my 8208 ?( i have 4 lots).
go do a search on this site , this forum for the details of this rifle and the other two.

mike in co....
 
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