Boyd Allen
Active member
Does anyone have a suggestion for a coating, or plating that might be applied to a cocking piece (generic Remington style) to reduce bolt lift...one that would last?
Anti wear/friction coating for cocking piece?
- Thread starter Boyd Allen
- Start date
Jerry W
Jerry Wick
How about boron nitride electroless nickel? I saw it in this article on 6br.com.
"The end result is a very slick, low-friction finish, that is .0002" (two ten-thousandths) thick and hard as glass. The Boron Nitride makes everything very smooth."
Jerry
"The end result is a very slick, low-friction finish, that is .0002" (two ten-thousandths) thick and hard as glass. The Boron Nitride makes everything very smooth."
Jerry
R
Roy Allain
Guest
Pardon my ignorance, but where/how is the nitriding done? Just on the action cam area or action bolt cam area or also other areas? Again, pardon my ignorance.
Roy
Roy
R
Roy Allain
Guest
Sorry Fred, but that doesn't answer my question. What specific area, if any, is nitrided. Many thanks, Roy.
If I remember correctly this is what Bill used to plate the complete action, the complete bolt and many small parts: http://www.caswellplating.com/elect...-nitride-electroless-plating-kit-1-5-gal.html
While visiting him we looked over an action of his own design that he coated along with the bolt and small parts. I can't remember more details since it was a few years back and I don't remember all of what he plated. If you knew Bill he liked to experiment and play with many things. My visit was far too short but time well spent.
C
CDM5512
Guest
Pardon my ignorance, but where/how is the nitriding done? Just on the action cam area or action bolt cam area or also other areas? Again, pardon my ignorance.
Roy
Not sure where you want it done, Nitriding is a process which creates a case depth ( hardening ) in the metal, its not a "coating". This increases wear and corrosion resistance. Seems like the best option, for what alot of people are looking for. If you have any questions on it feel free to ask, I know quite abit on it.
Roy
Not sure where you want it done, Nitriding is a process which creates a case depth ( hardening ) in the metal, its not a "coating". This increases wear and corrosion resistance. Seems like the best option, for what alot of people are looking for. If you have any questions on it feel free to ask, I know quite abit on it.
The "Boron Nitride Electroless Plating" refered to above is not a nitriding process it is an electroless nickel plating process that has boron nitride particles embedded in it to add lubricity.
C
CDM5512
Guest
Correct, Nitriding is a diffusion of Nitrogen, not a plating.
Intrested to know what they consider "nitride particles"
The nitride particles you refer to are known as h-BN or hexagonal boron nitride. More answers can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride
Boyd Allen
Active member
You may find this interesting. There is a lot of very specific information that directly relates to this discussion, including pictures of highly magnified sections of various coatings.
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I'll take this a different way. I've had two rifles which were sticky cocking because the cocking ramps were not silky smooth even after retouching them. Or to put it another way, even polished out perfectly they were still just not smooth.... in my experience if they're sticky like that there's no lube that'll help. ((((I'm kinda' weird on lube anyway, ever'body I know has a "favorite" and I've pretty much bought them ALL and haven't found one that's actually better than another. Just my opinion.))))
Sooooo, for ME, after all the polishing and matching of angles and marking with Prussian blue and examining wear marks and scraping off all the layout fluid in one stroke...... if it's STILL not smooth, heat it and quench it.
This might be stupid on many levels, and it might make your hannle fall off but it makes 'em smooth!
hth
al
Sooooo, for ME, after all the polishing and matching of angles and marking with Prussian blue and examining wear marks and scraping off all the layout fluid in one stroke...... if it's STILL not smooth, heat it and quench it.
This might be stupid on many levels, and it might make your hannle fall off but it makes 'em smooth!
hth
al
Boyd Allen
Active member
Al,
No doubt about it, hard and slick is better, but I am unwilling to take a torch to the bolt of a custom action, so at this point I am looking at the other half of the sliding pair, the cocking piece. Once you have the cam polished, being able to simply substitute a different cocking piece, and make the bolt lift easier, seems to be an attractive idea....to me. Did you read the document that I attached to my previous post? What do you think?
Another thing that relates to this that I noticed is that one of the characteristics that makes a grease good for locking lugs, may not be as good for the cocking cam. I want the grease that I put on my locking lugs to stay there, and not migrate into my chambers. Some time back, when I had experimented with adding HBN to STOS for use on my cocking cams, I found that the force required got better over time. Upon examination, it turned out that the STOS has migrated to the whole back quarter of the bolt body, lubricating its contact with the action raceway, in the area where operating the bolt creates the most lateral force, and resultant friction, within the action. I think that this contributed to reduction of bolt lift. BTW, the mix gave the best lift of all the lubes that I have tried. The only reason that I don not use it all the time is that I have not made up a small tub of it to take to the range. I need to do that. I would still use something else on the lugs.
Boyd
No doubt about it, hard and slick is better, but I am unwilling to take a torch to the bolt of a custom action, so at this point I am looking at the other half of the sliding pair, the cocking piece. Once you have the cam polished, being able to simply substitute a different cocking piece, and make the bolt lift easier, seems to be an attractive idea....to me. Did you read the document that I attached to my previous post? What do you think?
Another thing that relates to this that I noticed is that one of the characteristics that makes a grease good for locking lugs, may not be as good for the cocking cam. I want the grease that I put on my locking lugs to stay there, and not migrate into my chambers. Some time back, when I had experimented with adding HBN to STOS for use on my cocking cams, I found that the force required got better over time. Upon examination, it turned out that the STOS has migrated to the whole back quarter of the bolt body, lubricating its contact with the action raceway, in the area where operating the bolt creates the most lateral force, and resultant friction, within the action. I think that this contributed to reduction of bolt lift. BTW, the mix gave the best lift of all the lubes that I have tried. The only reason that I don not use it all the time is that I have not made up a small tub of it to take to the range. I need to do that. I would still use something else on the lugs.
Boyd
C
CDM5512
Guest
I would rather go with a controlled gas nitride then nickel plating, I think.
Boyd Allen
Active member
If I was considering just plain electroless nickel, I would agree, but have you looked at some of these composite platings? That is the reason that I attached the PDF. With HBN or PTFE added in, and some post plating heat treating, the characteristics look impressive. Have you played with either of these?
C
CDM5512
Guest
Yea they do, Im concerned about PFTE decomposing under heat.. What are you looking for more? Wear resistance with some lubricity?
Boyd Allen
Active member
Just something to reduce the cocking effort when the bolt is operated, lubricity and wear resistance. I seriously doubt that heat would be an issue for my application.