Annealing hard on neck bushing dies ???

Mozella said:
The second part of your post is correct, but you're misunderstanding the meaning of "elasticity" as it pertains to metals. Short answer: Annealing reduces elasticity.

Long answer: Most metals, including brass, are "elastic" to one degree or another. It might be easier to think of a piece of steel, as an example. A piece of "spring" steel, like a piece of "piano wire" is made from tempered high-carbon steel. It is a perfect illustration of a metal having high elasticity. You can bend it quite a bit and it will spring back to the original shape. However, if you bend it far enough, it will not spring back. Those who study metals would say you "have exceeded the elastic limit" of the material. If you take a piece of a wire coat hanger or straighten out a paper clip you can bend it a little bit and it will spring back to the original shape. But, since these metals are not tempered in the same way as piano wire, it takes less bending to deform them; i.e. they are less elastic. When you bend most familiar metals enough to permanently deform them, you are in the "plastic deformation" range.

Cartridge brass, when it's fired or sized, undergoes plastic deformation and we can easily see that by, to use one example, measuring the neck diameter before firing, after firing, and after sizing. Repeating this process (without annealing) makes the brass harder, more "springy", more elastic. This process is called work hardening. The brass becomes more brittle and subject to cracking. It also "springs back" more after sizing because it is more elastic.

Annealing cartridge brass reverses the effects of work hardening and makes it "softer". It becomes more "ductile", meaning it's easier to permanently deform. It is correct to say that it becomes less elastic after annealing, not more elastic.

I suspect you already know all this with the exception of how the word "elastic" is used to describe the behavior of metals.
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Yes, I was confusing the terms and appreciate the tutorial. It should be helpful to more than just me.

Rick
 
CMaier said:
I agree. my point was in very high volume you may see wear, so keep your eyes open.
There was i time when i went through thousands at a time.
We are not on the competition forum,
so general data will show up.
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A thousand at a time???? Huh?
Now a friend wore out some bullet dies....We learned this at his funeral. The dies had made 10 Million bullets.....FWIW.
 
B.Larson said:
MY REPLY WAS ASSUMING BRASS WAS CLEAN.................... NOW IF YOU PUT AN ABRASIVE SUSTANCE INTO A DIE........ IT WILL AFTER A LONG WHILE WEAR IT....... JUST FOR GRINS......
TAKE A CLEAN PIECE OF BRASS...... RUB IT ON A PIECE OF CARBIDE..... KEEP CAREFUL TRACK OF NUMBER OF STROKES AND MEASUREMENTS.... HOPEING WE ARE BOTH STILL ALIVE....... WHEN IT SHOWS WEAR WE CAN DISCUSS IT FURTHER.......
bill
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Hi Bill. What's harder copper or brass?
Lowell told me his first bullets were made with .22LR brass.....Back in the before times....
 
It makes no diff...i have the bushing in front of me, and the bare steel is visible on the inner radius. it wore out.
Two very clear colors...tin and shinny steel.

I simple bought another...20 some bucks...

zippy06 said:
A thousand at a time???? Huh?
Now a friend wore out some bullet dies....We learned this at his funeral. The dies had made 10 Million bullets.....FWIW.
Click to expand...
 
I think y'all are confusing something here. The ONLY reason to use a bushing is to get the case neck to hold a bullet. If the bushing you're using is not doing that, get a smaller bushing. When your cases get to the point of "too hard to use", then make new cases! The primer pockets are getting worn about then so you need some new cases anyway. Scratching, scuffing, etc, doesn't cause inaccuracy. If your bushing wears to the point of not working well...buy another one. I'm thinking you need three bushings...hopefully you can turn your necks such that the larger one works at first.

If you don't turn your necks you prolly only need two bushings but I don't know.....
 
what I have experienced is

after annealing cases, the necks need to be polished to some degree before they are sized AND use plenty of lube. Steel bushings will pick up the brass off newly annealed cases sometimes. Easy to polish the accumulation off the bushings, if that occurs but it is a compounding effect. The more brass that sticks, the more it continues to stick. Usually doesn't happen on the second and subsequent sizing's.

Pete
 
i soak them in copper solvent.....this happens to dies also.
if you see a scratch on a case , look at your dies.
clean dies make happy campers.

Pete Wass said:
after annealing cases, the necks need to be polished to some degree before they are sized AND use plenty of lube. Steel bushings will pick up the brass off newly annealed cases sometimes. Easy to polish the accumulation off the bushings, if that occurs but it is a compounding effect. The more brass that sticks, the more it continues to stick. Usually doesn't happen on the second and subsequent sizing's.

Pete
Click to expand...
 
A happy camper is a winning camper. What his dies do and what his cases look like is entirely a different story.....
 
Have a look @

CMaier said:
i soak them in copper solvent.....this happens to dies also.
if you see a scratch on a case , look at your dies.
clean dies make happy campers.
Click to expand...

some of the copper solvent tests on YouTube as to their abilities sometime.

Pete
 
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