an open message on the real cost of the national debt....

a sorry state of affairs....

but typical of the us population....
this has been seen by over 100 members(between this post and the other)
and
no action...nothing...none...

and you wonder why al says its gonna take a crash and burn to wake up the us population......

mike in co
 
Debt & Deficit

I work with a "progressive" liberal, we have discussions every day about the size and scope of government and how it should/or shouldn't be involved in peoples lives. Essentially from talking to this person (who in seeming every other way is a really good guy) he is willing to bet the family, farm and future on doing what he thinks is best for the country. Of course he believes that the government knows what's best for people and they are too stupid to think for themselves and that debt for benefit of the people and a blank check aren't all that bad. I don't understand the basis for any of his social/progressive arguments but I do my best to make it through the conversations while also trying to give him an alternate perspective.

Anyhow, just my thoughts on a single situation.

Take care, BP
 
mike in co said:
a sorry state of affairs....

but typical of the us population....
this has been seen by over 100 members(between this post and the other)
and
no action...nothing...none...

and you wonder why al says its gonna take a crash and burn to wake up the us population......

mike in co
Click to expand...

OK mike in co.....

What would you do about this problem ???

As the man said in the video "If ALL gov spending were to stop, it would take over 800 years to pay the debt off"

SO what do you recommend we do about it... I'm listening.
 
naw its only 400 years.....
stop spending money we do not have
the COMPROMISE style of two party politics...agrees to spend money we do not have.
its not likely we can recover...but we could make it better.........
better means we don't crash and burn so soon.
what EVERYONE nees to do, is to let thier elected reps know, they we know there is a problem, and we DO NOT want it to continue.
bite the bullet today...'cause tommorrow it will be a bigger bullet and you may not be able to bite it.
stop spending now, and figure how bad its gonna be....
all else is just making it worse.
you cannot eat gold and silver.....
ammo is the currency of the future....
folks it is really that bad....

and i'm not a para mil/not a nut/not a wacko...
just an average joe....
we must get people to acknowledge the problem.

mike in co

Gina1 said:
OK mike in co.....

What would you do about this problem ???

As the man said in the video "If ALL gov spending were to stop, it would take over 800 years to pay the debt off"

SO what do you recommend we do about it... I'm listening.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ooooo kkkkkk Mike

Where should we stop spending ?

I'm on SS, well past retirement age. Some call that an entitlement. Would you stop that?? How about funds for the FAA, and have our entire air control system come to a halt. Medicare... that's another good one for me. I paid into the system for 45 years, I don't consider it an "entitlement" Stop paying the military, Oh sure that would go over big..... Angry young men and women with guns.
OK how about cut spending, and tax the people making over $250K.. That certainly wasn't me. Oh shucks the Dems tried that but repubs blocked it.
How about closing all those tax loop holes... Darn... repubs blocked that also... Kill the Bush tax cuts.... blocked again !!

OK mike in co.. what do you recommend...?? We know we have a problem
 
go read my open letter..it has a list....
mike in co
Gina1 said:
Ooooo kkkkkk Mike

Where should we stop spending ?

I'm on SS, well past retirement age. Some call that an entitlement. Would you stop that?? How about funds for the FAA, and have our entire air control system come to a halt. Medicare... that's another good one for me. I paid into the system for 45 years, I don't consider it an "entitlement" Stop paying the military, Oh sure that would go over big..... Angry young men and women with guns.
OK how about cut spending, and tax the people making over $250K.. That certainly wasn't me. Oh shucks the Dems tried that but repubs blocked it.
How about closing all those tax loop holes... Darn... repubs blocked that also... Kill the Bush tax cuts.... blocked again !!

OK mike in co.. what do you recommend...?? We know we have a problem
Click to expand...
 
Wasted Hours!!

I wasted a lot of time trying to convert liberals.....I have come to the conclusion that it must be a defective gene that you can't reach!! One thing I do know though is that we don't throw this group of socialist out of Washington we're going to need all of our guns to defend our perimeter.
 
Gina1 said:
Ooooo kkkkkk Mike

Where should we stop spending ?

I'm on SS, well past retirement age. Some call that an entitlement. Would you stop that?? How about funds for the FAA, and have our entire air control system come to a halt. Medicare... that's another good one for me. I paid into the system for 45 years, I don't consider it an "entitlement" Stop paying the military, Oh sure that would go over big..... Angry young men and women with guns.
OK how about cut spending, and tax the people making over $250K.. That certainly wasn't me. Oh shucks the Dems tried that but repubs blocked it.
How about closing all those tax loop holes... Darn... repubs blocked that also... Kill the Bush tax cuts.... blocked again !!

OK mike in co.. what do you recommend...?? We know we have a problem
Click to expand...

We have nothing but a SPENDING PROBLEM. To begin addressing it:

1. Abolish the Department of Energy and let the industry generate jobs and commerce while stopping the flow of US dollars into the Middle east.
2. Abolish the Department of Education and let the States and localities run that enterprise in the manner they see fit (there WAS education before the DoE existed, so forget the arguments).
3. Abolish the Department of Health and Human Services.
4. Abolish the Department of Agriculture and let the States manage their resources.
5. Abolish the Department of Labor.
6. Abolish the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
7. Abolish the Department of Veterans Affairs and let the DoD, renamed the Department of War, administer this.
8. Sell all federal lands that are not already National Parks and such.
9. Abolish the Department of Homeland Security.
10. Reinstate the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution to its rightful status and allow no more loose interpretations of the same.
11. Abolish the IRS, income taxes, and institute a 5% sales tax that cannot be raised without a Constitutional amendment, and allow the Department of Commerce to administer it.
12. Pass a Balanced Budget amendment.
13. Abolish taxes on corporations, and couple that abolition with a prohibition of corporate lobbying.
14. Require the citation of Constitutional authority for any new proposed legislation.
15. Require a sunset provision in all new federal legislation, not to exceed 10 years.
16. Diminish the authority of the Department of Transportation and the Department of Commerce.
17. Subject all bureaucratic regulation to Congressional approval...no more dictatorship of the bureaucrat.
18. Refund to the People all the money they have paid into the Social Security and Medicare systems and abolish them.
19. Reform the federal Reserve System and allow Congress to audit the same annually.

There. That's a good start right there.

Too radical? Not when you are in radical trouble, which we ARE. We waste so much money paying bureaucrats to strangle the economy and implement counterproductive policies that it is criminal.
 
i dont agree with all of it, but its a good start....
mike in co
RiverRider said:
We have nothing but a SPENDING PROBLEM. To begin addressing it:

1. Abolish the Department of Energy and let the industry generate jobs and commerce while stopping the flow of US dollars into the Middle east.
2. Abolish the Department of Education and let the States and localities run that enterprise in the manner they see fit (there WAS education before the DoE existed, so forget the arguments).
3. Abolish the Department of Health and Human Services.
4. Abolish the Department of Agriculture and let the States manage their resources.
5. Abolish the Department of Labor.
6. Abolish the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
7. Abolish the Department of Veterans Affairs and let the DoD, renamed the Department of War, administer this.
8. Sell all federal lands that are not already National Parks and such.
9. Abolish the Department of Homeland Security.
10. Reinstate the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution to its rightful status and allow no more loose interpretations of the same.
11. Abolish the IRS, income taxes, and institute a 5% sales tax that cannot be raised without a Constitutional amendment, and allow the Department of Commerce to administer it.
12. Pass a Balanced Budget amendment.
13. Abolish taxes on corporations, and couple that abolition with a prohibition of corporate lobbying.
14. Require the citation of Constitutional authority for any new proposed legislation.
15. Require a sunset provision in all new federal legislation, not to exceed 10 years.
16. Diminish the authority of the Department of Transportation and the Department of Commerce.
17. Subject all bureaucratic regulation to Congressional approval...no more dictatorship of the bureaucrat.
18. Refund to the People all the money they have paid into the Social Security and Medicare systems and abolish them.
19. Reform the federal Reserve System and allow Congress to audit the same annually.

There. That's a good start right there.

Too radical? Not when you are in radical trouble, which we ARE. We waste so much money paying bureaucrats to strangle the economy and implement counterproductive policies that it is criminal.
Click to expand...
 
phil..
its not dems vs repub..it politics that is the problem...all parties are to blame....
its the compromise, i get some. you get some...when there is no "some" to share.
both parties for the last 40 years or so
stop spending money
mike in co
Phil Deese said:
I wasted a lot of time trying to convert liberals.....I have come to the conclusion that it must be a defective gene that you can't reach!! One thing I do know though is that we don't throw this group of socialist out of Washington we're going to need all of our guns to defend our perimeter.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with that for the most part, Mike. I hold fast to the notion that the key to to all this is strictly imposing the 10th Amendment. Take away all that power, and the money disappears. Take away the money, and the rats disappear. It's not that complicated...but courage is an essential ingredient.
 
Mike.............................................. ....................

I agree......for the most part all any of them care about is getting re-elected. I lean more toward the republican party because of the social issues and constitutional loyalty. I have been involved with the Tea Party and feel like they are trying to save this country for our children and grandchildren. YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO GIVE AWAY MONEY THAT YOU DON"T HAVE!!
 
"compromise" simplified.

Joe walks up to Bill and says "give me 100.00 for supporting my (whatever.)

Bill says "no."

Joe comes back in a week and says "give me 100.00."

Bill says "no."

Joe comes back again, and again....insistently.

Finally, after about a year Joe changes his tactic. "OK Bill, we've been arguing long enough! This discourse is going nowhere, let's get our people together and sit down to hammer out a compromise. I'll probably settle for 75 or even 50 but be REASONABLE! We've got to find common ground somewhere...."
 
Our system is actually a machine which feeds itself. Job justification at its best. If any one dept of the government solved all
its problems, it would no longer be needed. Same can be said for any person in politics. This machine is as close to perpetual
motion as possible. Now consider that many people including some here work for that system, why would this change.
I am told the largest group of people that don't pay taxes , work for the dept of Education, for one simple reason. It is against
the law for the government to contact your employer for not contributing to the IRS.
Everybody has an angle .
Many would agree that a flat tax would be fair for all. The IRS could actually reduce its workforce substantially. Thats something
they wouldn't want. and no doub't would oppose.
Alinwa is right, The system will have to crash so the blind can see it.
 
bob,
i have said it before...there is no legal income tax on the wages of workers. go read...i have..it aint there ..not even close. so why authorized the collection of a new tax ??

the irs does not care what the law says...they will contact/threaten your employer if you do not "volunteer" to particpate in thier thieft.
i have been to tax court( you have to sign away your rights under the constitution to participate) and to federal court on the legality of personal income tax.
it is just another problem that needs to be corrected. the law passed by congress was a tax on "profits and gains" of over $100,000....this was in the early 1900's......look how it has devolved in a 100 years....fix the exisiting system or remove the offending parties/people.

mike in co
Bob Kingsbury said:
Our system is actually a machine which feeds itself. Job justification at its best. If any one dept of the government solved all
its problems, it would no longer be needed. Same can be said for any person in politics. This machine is as close to perpetual
motion as possible. Now consider that many people including some here work for that system, why would this change.
I am told the largest group of people that don't pay taxes , work for the dept of Education, for one simple reason. It is against
the law for the government to contact your employer for not contributing to the IRS.
Everybody has an angle .
Many would agree that a flat tax would be fair for all. The IRS could actually reduce its workforce substantially. Thats something
they wouldn't want. and no doub't would oppose.
Alinwa is right, The system will have to crash so the blind can see it.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Kingsbury said:
Many would agree that a flat tax would be fair for all. The IRS could actually reduce its workforce substantially. Thats something
they wouldn't want. and no doub't would oppose.
Click to expand...

It goes a lot farther than the IRS, every branch of government today is more dedicated to encouraging and exacerbating the problem it was set up to solve thereby justifying its existence and increasing it's size. Eisenhower talked about the military industrial complex, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY, what he said has not only come to fruition over the last decades concerning the military, it has also has become the corrupt predominent business philosophy of every level of governments all over the world.
 
Marc said:
It goes a lot farther than the IRS, every branch of government today is more dedicated to encouraging and exacerbating the problem it was set up to solve thereby justifying its existence and increasing it's size. Eisenhower talked about the military industrial complex, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY, what he said has not only come to fruition over the last decades concerning the military, it has also has become the corrupt predominent business philosophy of every level of governments all over the world.
Click to expand...

pithy

huzzah

al
 
Sit back, reflect, Think, THEN ACT

While I agree with almost all of the tenor of the video, the facts are so off base it's ridiculous.

Just for starters, the statement "If ALL gov spending were to stop, it would take over 800 years to pay the debt off" is sensationalist hog wash.

Pig Slop.

If all spending were to stop, the debt would be paid off in 6 1/2 years. You guys talk about thinking for yourselves, Can you ? Can you even start ?

Our budget is what ?? Do you know ?? We took in 2.3 trillion dollars 2010. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy12/pdf/BUDGET-2012-BUD.pdf

Do some real simple math. 14 trillion/2.3 trillion is exactly what ????

Misinformation is bad. Get informed. Don't hop in line like a bunch of lunatics with pitchforks.
I agree with the tenor of the video, but it makes me wrench to see this .....

Spending is out of control - Check

We spend more than we take in - Check

We can do something about it - Check

Spewing distortion - Grow up. )chill(
 
Where in that report does it say we took in 2.3 trillion dollars ??
flouncer said:
while i agree with almost all of the tenor of the video, the facts are so off base it's ridiculous.

Just for starters, the statement "if all gov spending were to stop, it would take over 800 years to pay the debt off" is sensationalist hog wash.

Pig slop.

If all spending were to stop, the debt would be paid off in 6 1/2 years. You guys talk about thinking for yourselves, can you ? Can you even start ?

Our budget is what ?? Do you know ?? We took in 2.3 trillion dollars 2010. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy12/pdf/budget-2012-bud.pdf

do some real simple math. 14 trillion/2.3 trillion is exactly what ????

Misinformation is bad. Get informed. Don't hop in line like a bunch of lunatics with pitchforks.
I agree with the tenor of the video, but it makes me wrench to see this .....

Spending is out of control - check

we spend more than we take in - check

we can do something about it - check

spewing distortion - grow up. )chill(
Click to expand...
 
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