Al, in Waugh

C

Charles E

curmudgeon
Ok Al, I have a question.

I have a Savage .223 I shoot in Factory Class point-blank score matches. It's been doing pretty good for me, with recycled Winchester military brass. I thought maybe I'd break down & give it some good cases.

But it's a factory chamber. Just abut everything is .010 or more oversize. My trim-to length is .020 over SAAMI minimum (I have a long-necked .223!).

So. If I get new cases, say, Lapua, would you recommend expanding up the necks to 6mm then necking back down for a crush fit? Or wasted on a factory chamber?
 
Charles E said:
Ok Al, I have a question.

I have a Savage .223 I shoot in Factory Class point-blank score matches. It's been doing pretty good for me, with recycled Winchester military brass. I thought maybe I'd break down & give it some good cases.

But it's a factory chamber. Just abut everything is .010 or more oversize. My trim-to length is .020 over SAAMI minimum (I have a long-necked .223!).

So. If I get new cases, say, Lapua, would you recommend expanding up the necks to 6mm then necking back down for a crush fit? Or wasted on a factory chamber?
Click to expand...

I would first pop the nut loose and see can ye' just 'just the headspace doon to a taight fit eh.......

Barring that, YES ...... IMO it's always worth it to fireform on a crush. In the case of false-shouldering a very TIGHT crush would be hoovis

opinionsby



al
 
Had you thought about getting some .222 Rem. Mag. cases and pushing the shoulder back. Then trimming to length. This will give you some thicker brass for a slightly closer fit? You also might try, after fire forming, to just size maybe 3/4 of the neck. This will allow that other 1/4 of the neck to fill the factory chamber and keep the case centered in the bore????? I personally do not think Al's method of fire forming will be worth the effort for a factory round in a factory chamber??? (wild cats...definitely) I would think you could get the same results by just "jamming" the bullet into the lands. Just an opinion?
Rich De
 
OK.... here's what I think. :)

All those who're tired of Al's thoughts please just turn the page... now :D

If anything it's MORE important to jam factory stuff. For instance today I was working with a brand new Rem 700 300WSM, sloppy chamber both in length and girth and fireforming groups were terrible. This is to be the basis of a mildly customized hunting rig and I've got two NIB 700's to choose from. I've got two chances to make a factory rifle shootable. Do I luck out? Or do we throw the barrel(s) in the trash and scratch up 550 bucks???

And it wasn't in the budget to do the whole neck-up neck-down thing, I hadda' choose.

Soooo....after three firings of 15 cases while I 'broke in' the barrel I picked thru and found 3 good square ones that were tight fit in the chamber, I have a selection of WSM dies so was able to set up for a scrupulous fit, nice solid feel on the downstroke, and have at it.

The rifle came alive, really. It's a keeper.

I used those three cases to go through a load workup sequence and ended my session with a mini aggregate of really small holes. NOW I'll do what has to be done to make good cases for the rifle.

And here's WHY in my opinion.....

Borden Bumps, bushed actions and oversized bolts...... 90 degree cocking pieces and floating boltheads, even various MIS-alignments all exist as ways to achieve alignment and alleviate random vibrations at the moment of firing.

In a perfect world the cartridge should be centerlined and perpendicular to the boltface when it ka-booms.....the lugs should be firmly seated.

The typical factory rig is the exact OPPOSITE of this. The round is flopping loose, the barrel doesn't line up with the chamber doesn't line up with the action bore CERTAINLY isn't perpendicular to the boltface and therefore every firing event is it's own separate cataclysm. Cataclysmic events aren't repeatable. They're random. It's a known fact that the only safe place to ride the lightnin' is in the middle, and to stay in the middle you need REPEATABLE events .......

So tighten it up, bury those lugs......do what it takes to BURY them and keep them buried through the use of good sizing technique. Keep the lugs seated and most rifles will settle down.




It works.




Well, it works for me and Caffee at least :p:p:p




opinionsby





al
 
Ohhh, and as an aside....

Jamming the bullets does NOTHING to promote linearity or to make good brass. It's a scam, a waste of energy and barrel. It CAN'T and doesn't work.

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:D

al
 
Hi Rich, I thought about using .222 Remington Magnum cases, but all I see are "Remington" cases. Consistency, flash hole size, etc. aren't apt to be so good. Times past, Lapua contracted out the .223 bras to another manufcturer, and it was terrible. But I hear (famous last words) it is pretty good now. And there is always Norma. I don't run these to BR pressures,.

Al, thanks for the opinion. Believe I'll follow it.
 
Rich De said:
Had you thought about getting some .222 Rem. Mag. cases and pushing the shoulder back. Then trimming to length. This will give you some thicker brass for a slightly closer fit? You also might try, after fire forming, to just size maybe 3/4 of the neck. This will allow that other 1/4 of the neck to fill the factory chamber and keep the case centered in the bore????? I personally do not think Al's method of fire forming will be worth the effort for a factory round in a factory chamber??? (wild cats...definitely) I would think you could get the same results by just "jamming" the bullet into the lands. Just an opinion?
Rich De
Click to expand...

thread is interesting! But why not just hunt up a bunch of once fired .204 Ruger brass, and do the samething? .222 mag brass is often hard to come by, and there's a lot of .204 brass out there. As for the neck being cut long, I once had a Remington, that the neck was .070" too deep! Also could you shorten the barrel .050", and then touch it up with a .223 reamer? Then reset the headspace with a go-nogo gauge.
gary
 
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