After annealing. Then what??

S

skeetlee

Active member
I have a question for you fellas. I have noticed that after annealing my brass that it becomes really sticky or actually dry. When you go to seat a bullet you dam near need a hammer to get the bullet to go down into the case. What can a guy do to help seat a bullet that wont effect the accuracy of the rifle. I can use some sort of lubrication but wont that effect the bullet and the accuracy? What does a guy need to do to successfully shoot freshly annealed brass? After the first firing after annealing the brass all is well, but like i say, that first time out seems to be a trick!! I am loading for my dasher if this matters. Looking for some advise! Thanks lee
 
Skeetlee
I tried the annealing several years ago when it was all the rage.I discovered it is something better left to other shooters as my first loads after annealing didn't shoot for beans.
I am sure the guys who anneal after each shot will not like my post but in my hands the best thing you can do after annealing is throw your brass away or recycle it.
Lynn
 
I always annealed and then did the casework afterward. So, I had lube in the neck same as if there hadn't been any annealing done. I neck down and use an expander to come back up to size, and that requires a bit of lube inside the neck.

Working the brass is what makes it harder. So, working it after I annealed would add 'just' enough spring back into the brass to get the neck tension I wanted.

They also make lubes that do not burn, but, some of them are a water based type so heating the lube would bake off what water still remained in the lube, which wasn't much to begin with.

Also, cleaning the necks inside with a bronze brush makes for a dry case with almost no friction. The dry brass really doesn't stick, it's the dirt that's on it that does.
 
I anneal my 30BR cases about every 5-6 firings. I have used the same cases for two seasons with decent results. (BTW- I use a Ken Light machine). After annealing, I use a fiber brush to clean any burned residue from the necks. I use coated bullets (MS2) and when I seat them using an abrbor press, they are very smooth, like butter. I do have a friend that uses the same procedure except for the fact that he uses a pressure gauge on his press. He says that the pressure readings are higher with annealed cases, but that since they seat so smoothly, they tend to feel like they have less pressure.

After annealing cases should shoot like new ones. The mistake most people make is over annealing. My experience with that is, if you do this, they can be restored by expanding and sizing a couple of times to harden again.

Of course, YMMV

Rick
 
Take a worn bore brush, wrap some 0000 steel wool around it, chuck brush up in a cordless drill, and burnish the inside of annealed necks with that. Gets rid of the "crust" left behing after annealing -- especially if the necks weren't clean when they were annealed -- and gives you bright, slippery brass.
 
I anneal after every firing. I had 13 reloadings on 100 pieces of brass. At reloading #8 I shot the 5 shot light gun IBS 1,000 record. I retired the brass and barrel after 13 loadings althought, they were still working. After removing the case from the flame, ( I drop them in CLR calcium lime and rust remover- let them soak for a couple of hours. (they have already been neck sized and primers removed). I then throughly rinse them and brush the inside of the neck with a nylon RCBS case neck brush. The CLR loosens all the junk from the insides of the case. I then use compressed air to blow out the moisture, they then get heated in a coffee can with with a heat gun to dry them out. Finally, I run thum thru an expander I made which jussssssssst slightly burnishes the inside of the neck.
Rich De
 
Rich De
Rich do you think the quenching affect of the CLR is important? I used a torch and an annealing machine both but just dropped them into a metal 5 gallon bucket without any water.
I started at 2 seconds of heat and went to 6 seconds and didn't notice any difference.
Lynn
 
Lynn:
For what my opinion is worth, the quench, whether it be water or CLR, is necessary to accomplish the annealing.
Rich De mentions blowing the case out with compressed air, and of course, he is correct. I should have included that in my post above where I suggested burnishing the inside of case necks with 0000 steel wool. Whether it be steel wool bits or brass shavings from primer pockts or the case mouth, blow that crud outta there.
 
Lubing the neck won't affect the accuracy.I use a graphite spray to lube my necks every time I load,you can use a dry necklube also.I did this now for 4 years and it has worked fine.
 
Quenching has no effect on brass. Lube the necks, in my experience a dirty neck is much better than a clean neck. If you quench in a liquid that burns on you may in effect coat the neck.
 
Actually if you do some searches on annealing you will find some links to brass properties.
One thing that came out through all the old posts I read was that unlike iron steel or others brass has no ability to temper that is get harder or softer with heat so that the quench or air cool make no difference,,,, However for my own piece of mind I would figure if It were perfect at that point quenching would prevent the heat from going any further down the case and into an undesirable area.
Like I said just do some searches. There was a really good thread a couple of months ago.
 
I recommend using R.O.D.I. water and about 10% Vinegar to the solution for quenching...clean the cases (inside and outside) before annealing...then drop them into the solution immediatedly when the correct temperature is reached...




Eddie in Texas
 
Lynn.........No, I don't think the quenching in CLR does anything more than water. But the CLR does definitely loosen the crud inside the case. So rather than quenching in water, I use the CLR and just let the cases soke. You will be amazed at how clean the inside of the cases are.
By the way, this process was taught to me by Charles Bailey the 2001 IBS 1,000 yd. "shooter of the year" when he was active at Hawks Ridge. Since I was a newbie at 1K BR, I figured if it was good enough for him, that I should also jump on the band wagon and I can't say it hurt. BTW, I use a small fixture on a slow RPM motor to turn my cases while applying the heat.
Rich De
 
I anneal after every firing and it has really helped on vertical, which helps dramatically on score. First i clean the inside and outside with steel wool then i anneal and drop in water. I then blow the cases out with air and let dry for a day. Then i size the case. I think when annealed properly the bullet go in easier and more consistant, because the brass is softer. You can change bushing size or expander sizes to control tension. Matt
 
dk..........if you want to speed the drying process.......after you blow them out? Put them in a metal coffee can and apply heat from a heat gun our hair dryer. I get them pretty hot.......too hot to touch. This dries them right out. Let them cool and reload!
Rich De
 
Ok thanks fellas lots of good info here. I almost didnt ask about this as i wasn't sure there would be any response. Anyway i tried the steel wool thing and it seemed to help a bit. I took pieces of 0000 steel wool and spun them onto a brass brush that was chucked in to my drill, then went to work. Like i said it helped but it didnt cure the stickiness completely. I am also a little concerned about how much material the steel wool is removing. I miked a few cases before i brushed and then after and there were a few 10ths difference after completion. I am thinking this is the crud but could it also be brass? probably not but i am not sure. I then had to put my expander ball back into my redding die and i ran the cases back and forth or rather up and down over the ball about a dozen times. this seemed to do the most good. After about 20 cases i started seeing little slivers of brass so i stopped doing this as i didnt want to tear up my die. I am most likly just going to throw this brass in the trash or use them for fowlers. I have zero confidence in this brass after all this even though they may be 100% fine. One thing about me, is if i dont like something 100% or if i have any doubts about something it will effect me mentally until i do something about it, and in this case, thats throwing the brass away. We will see. If they shoot ok ill keep them for fowlers and practice, if they dont they go to the big round recycling ben. I know we annealed the cases properly, that i am sure. One thing i will do differently next time is to anneal the brass before i FL size it and i will clean the necks some how to remove the crud before annealing. I think thats the two biggest reasons why i am experiencing these issues.
I did seat some bullets in to the brass i ran over the expander ball then removed the bullets to see if i was scaring the bullets and they were fine. I dont know were the little pieces of brass were coming from, but like i said, i dont want to scratch up my die so i am not going to do this any longer. I may run the brass over my 6.5mm expander tool then neck them back down and see what that does for them, but that will work the brass over pretty good, so there goes the hole reason for annealing in the first place. This dasher brass only had around 10 firings on them so i dont even know if they needed annealing to begin with! I wanted to buy one of those Bench source units but i think i will hold off for a while now, if ever. Ron H. does claim that annealing 30Br brass is a good idea and i love shooting my 30BR's so who knows what i will end up doing! Thanks for the help fellas. Lee
 
Skeetlee
You never said you tried molly inside the necks before you seated the bullets, try it you'll like it. Nice even seats everytime.

Joe Salt
 
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