Action stripped threads

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docsleepy

Guest
OK, dumb question here.

I have slightly damaged the threads of one of the mounting holes of my (savage) action while doing my 1st barrel change. (Chalk it up to learning; moved the barrel successfully to an older rifle, put on a 6PPC, both headspaced and working.)

They are OK but I'm concerned that might some day strip.

What would be the way to fix them if they do strip? Can a gunsmith ameliorate the damage or fix some way? Do they have to just rethread for a larger thread? (They were 1/4 x 28 tpi threads) Glue on a nut? Helicoil?

Thanks,
gordon
 
Best fix is the helicoil.. Not cheep to do it your self as the kits are a bit expencive just to do one coil..

Any good smith or machine shop will have them though and i couldn't see the job taking more than about 15-20 min..
The benifits are you can keep to the original size bolts so no stock or bottom metal modifications..

Cheers
leeroy
 
I have slightly damaged the threads of one of the mounting holes of my (Savage) action while,,,,,,,

They are OK but I'm concerned,,,,


Doc, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) Chances are it will last forever just as it is. :)

Gene Beggs
 
HeliCoil

This is the best fix for a stripped thread. Many believe the helicoil is actually stronger than the originol thread where the option of going to the next size up is not available.

The only problem you might have is if it is a blind hole, and not much of it. Most Helicoil Taps are not bottom taps. If it is blind, maybe you can drill it all the way through if it is of no consequense.

Some Auto Parts stores will rent helicoil kits, so you don't have to buy the entire thing..........jackie
 
Wow, what wonderful information!

It is NOT broken at the moment. New stock is on the way, and I will probably bed that and be very careful with the torques. May not have to do anything.

But knowing that the helicoil would handle my problem is very comforting. I would probably let a gunsmith do it. If we're talking less than 30 minutes work, the price should be do-able.

It is NOT a blind hole; goes from the bottom right through into the inside of the action (in which the rifle bolt moves) ; so the stock bolt in the threads must be appropriately short and has only a few threads on which to hold.

Yes, I know this is not an expensive action, but I'm learning on less expensive stuff and have a few (not well heeled) friends who may follow in my footsteps. For all of us, moving from 1" groups to 3/8" groups is a wonderful exercise; friends are learning how to reload and may move to 6PPC evnetually as well.

Thanks for the advice!!!
gordon
 
Gordon, anohter possible fix is a good Class 3 threaded fastener. The better fit of a Class 3 thread may be enough to take care of it. -Al
 
Here's what I would do :) (and let me state that I'm not completely comfortable with the heli-coil idea because I believe that it markedly weakens the receiver ring. Not necessarily dangerously, but not good for accuracy IMO to weaken the lower lug area)

I would set the action into the stock and use the hole as a guide or, if you've the capability, clamp it into a drill press fixture to ensure alignment and re-tap (chase the threads) in the existing hole...... Then use JB weld to repair the hole. To do this I'd degrease the buggered up hole, wipe a little JB into the threads and GENTLY run an appropriate screw clear through and let it set up. Remember to put release agent on the screw. I would make a new screw, one that is long enough to run in and find the last few probably undamaged threads...... and then pillar bed.

This last is the biggie...... pillar bed an FUH'GEDDABOUT the whole idea of "torquing the screws." Just run 'em up to firmly finger tight using an allen wrench or screwdriver and be done. Properly applied pillar bedding completely eliminates the whole torquing issue. You don't have to get them "tight." A properly pillar bedded rifle is stress-free. The action screws exist only to hold the handle on the gun.


Lastly, if the hole is well and truly toasted then if it pulled out I'd retap BOTH HOLES slightly bigger...... like maybe metric M7X1. A pain in the bupkus but hey, once they're in who cares. They'll stay with the rifle.

Justanotheropinion :)

al
 
JB weld repair

alinwa said:
Here's what I would do :) (and let me state that I'm not completely comfortable with the heli-coil idea because I believe that it markedly weakens the receiver ring. Not necessarily dangerously, but not good for accuracy IMO to weaken the lower lug area)

I would set the action into the stock and use the hole as a guide or, if you've the capability, clamp it into a drill press fixture to ensure alignment and re-tap (chase the threads) in the existing hole...... Then use JB weld to repair the hole. To do this I'd degrease the buggered up hole, wipe a little JB into the threads and GENTLY run an appropriate screw clear through and let it set up. Remember to put release agent on the screw. I would make a new screw, one that is long enough to run in and find the last few probably undamaged threads...... and then pillar bed.

This last is the biggie...... pillar bed an FUH'GEDDABOUT the whole idea of "torquing the screws." Just run 'em up to firmly finger tight using an allen wrench or screwdriver and be done. Properly applied pillar bedding completely eliminates the whole torquing issue. You don't have to get them "tight." A properly pillar bedded rifle is stress-free. The action screws exist only to hold the handle on the gun.


Lastly, if the hole is well and truly toasted then if it pulled out I'd retap BOTH HOLES slightly bigger...... like maybe metric M7X1. A pain in the bupkus but hey, once they're in who cares. They'll stay with the rifle.

Justanotheropinion :)

al
Click to expand...

Al,
I would do the same repair you just outlined.

Lou Baccino
 
missing thread..

If it still is holding keep using it as is.

When it goes you have several options..

1.drill,ream, and retap next larger size screw.

2. drill out two plus sizes, ream, and tap and insert threaded bushing

3. clean up and tig weld up the hole and drill and retap.

4. there are several fixes that are combinations of the above.

3. Drill out the hole .375" measure the depth of the hole. you don't want your plug to be to long. make a plug (tight fitting). chamfer both the hole (outside)and (outside) end of plug. press plug into hole until flush with bottom. Take a number nine tig torch with a 3/16ths sharp tungsten. Do a root pass without any filler, then clean up and back fill with 70,000 filler or 4140. Clean up and re drill and tap .250 X 28 and you are as good as new. With tig you can keep your temp to the spot where you are welding . Keeping the action with a gas purge and wet cloth you want have to worry about action warpage.

Nat Lambeth
 
great info!

THANKS again! Even more great information.

For the moment it holds fine, but I still have another stock to bed this receiver into, which means it will have to have screws in and out a couple more times; also I need to take the barrel back off sometime and change the recoil lug to a precision one I bought. I used an action wrench to get the barrel off the first time; it WARNED against tightening too much down and crushing the action, and I must not have tightened those bolts adequately--so more pressure than desirable was on the one bolt that went into the action threaded hole.....now that I have the factory adhesive off, I can get the barrel on / off with a lot less effort.\

I see great solutions listed. I'm going to print out this thread and stick it with my "gun stuff" so if it goes, I'll have all these plans to present to the gunsmith and ask what he can do.


Again, I can't thank all you guys enough. I have just learned an incredible amount from this forum and all the members who have answered all kinds of questions--and I've read zillions of threads and learned a ton.

Thanks,

gordon
 
If slightly deformed, buggered up, you might try "ironing" the thread with a form tap. These don't remove material or cut, they use pressure to form the thread and it makes for a stronger thread.

Taps run about 25 bucks a piece for the good ones and last almost forever.

Good luck.

C
 
Hey Nat,

Where do you get those 3/16" electrodes? Mid point for current for that size is about 500 amps. It must not take very long to make a pass! Use those monsters for weight to balance stocks. At 7" long they fit in a weight system socket perfectly. Get ya some 1/16" electrodes (thorated for stainless) and be happy.

Greg
 
Depending on how clever you are -- and how cosmetically conscious -- you can use Loctite red to secure a threaded *stud* in the action. The nut will go on the other end -- that's where the "clever" comes in. You might be able to use a nut of some sort with the trigger guard -- but likely need blind pillar in the stock, with the trigger guard mounted otherwise.
 
Numerous options
as a welder,I'd stay clear of epoxy.(I hate cleaning the stuff to prep for a permanent fix)
Chase the thread,class the hardware,oversize if needed.
Apply heat if step 1&2 fail.

Nat,
Tungsten diameter-amperage rated & bead proportional.
DCSP-smallest diameter with out percipitation.
ACHF-next larger pure tungsten(green tip) balled by DCRP.

Greg,
2% thoriated(red tip) tungsten starts hard & wanders too much-

Try some "rare earth"(grey tip) .040 "tungsten & it's non radioactive!!!
 
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Dan,

Thanks for the tip. I don't weld bolts or actions except the ocassional scope base hole back where it belongs thing. When I tig it's generally 304, 310 or 316 type SS. Does your advice on rare earth electrodes hold for those materials as well? I don't like the idea of thorium in the lungs either.

BTW, I've seen your work on bolts and I'm a big fan. Nice work. When you weld on Remington Handles about how much current?

Greg
 
Greg,
The rare earth(EGW)(grey tip)electrodes will work where any 2% thoriated(red tip)electrode have since the inception of HeliArc in the early 50's.
Another option is 1.5% Lanthanated(EWLa-1.5)(gold tip)electrodes.
DCSP(Electtrode-/Grnd+)steels,stainless,inconel,monel,Ti etc,etc.
Grind pencil point longitudinally not radially 2/3 length to diameter of electrode.
DCRP(El+/Grnd-)copper,brass,bronze w/ parent filler.
AC w continuous HF Aluminum & Magnesium w/ pure(green tip) balled end tungsten.
Helium will give a pinkish hue to flash & add 50-75 amps to puddle compared to UHP Argon shielding gas.

Mauser handles-
1/16 diam rare earth electrode,20ltrs UHP Argon,100-110amps,pulsed & purged.
Rem/Clone handles-CrMo
.040" diam Rare Earth electrode,20ltrs UHP Argon,60-80 amps,pulsed & purged.
Get on,Get off.
Temper can be gained,not lost or vise versa. . .w/practice!!!
S/S
.040" diam 1.5% Lanthanated
 
Dan,

I've only used pure (for aluminum) and 2% thorated ( carbon and SS) in the past. I'm looking foward to less arc wander with the RE electrodes. I've got touch start (lift) or HF start on my welders so getting started with scatch isn't much of an issue for me. Got some new things to try now.

Thanks,

Greg

BTW, Some years back I watched Jim Boland in Van Nuys welding mag funnels on 1911s. He'd cup the frame and torch and fat fill rod in both hands (like he was holding a match to protect it from the wind) with the torch handle coming out over the back of his right hand. Once he got his arc established he'd roll the foot control down to the stop and roll his hands around the upside down end of the frame. It took about 4 seconds to complete the weld at 300 amps and then he'd drop the torch and and throw his smoking cotton gloves onto the floor to get them off his hands. No weave and not much post purge for him. Wild. Different strokes for different folks but his results looked great.

Greg
 
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Please just stop here and have someone, who has the experience and background to properly evaluate this situation(trusted gunsmith, firearm experienced machinist-also trusted). This may easily be just a mole hill that can turn into a mountain with the wrong approach. If its a mole hill then you can follow the mole hill repair, if its already a mountain then you can respond approriately. Have been there and learned my lessons--just want to pass on my experience and hpoefully help you avoid pain.
 
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