Accuracy of Harrell Powder measure - PREMIUM version

L

londonhunter

Guest
Hi

I just bought a Harrell premium power measure in England

Previous post talked about a calibration sheet that comes with the dispenser however i did not get one

I am using it on N160 v133 and R17

What I do is to find the mark on the dial which correlates to an accurate charge thrown by RCBS chargemaster

However every 03 - 05 throws it dispenses a charge up to 0.3 grains out sometimes over and sometimes under

Totally erratic and without a pattern

Otherwise charges is usually accurate to within .1 grain accuracy

I just have no confidence to bring it to the range without my RCBS next to me

Have i got a faulty dispenser or just my technique ?

I observe that the repeatability depends on the powder physical characteristic as well.
Even for the 03 powder that i use v133 seems most consistent

Does that me for larger grain powder the harrell is not suitable ?
 
It isn't just the Harrell. Most all measures I have tested will do the same. =/- .2 to .3 is about the best you can expect overall. All the observations you have made about physical characteristics are correct. Most measures do best with ball powders. That said, not all rifles/cartridges do their best with ball powders. At benchrest ranges of 100 yard to 300 yards the .3 grain difference is hidden in technique errors anyway. Out to 1000 yards...maybe the difference will be noted enough to warrant using scale weighed charges. Do an Optimal Charge Weight ladder and you'll find a load that is forgiving to minor measure errors. JMHO
 
I have not seen N160 and R17 (primarily a 6PPC shooter) but I can speak to the issue of throwing 133. I think that it is the upper limit in grain size for what may be reliably thrown, with any measure. I have several different kinds. Technique and consistency are very important, even so realistically, I only expect +- 1.5 gr. or slightly better. On a good day, it may appear that I can do +- .1, but this does not prove out every time. On the other hand, I can make that standard with 322 and Benchmark. I think that this is because of their smaller grain size. I have not tried the new 8208, but I could do +- .1 with the old surplus powder. I should point out that a lot of very good work is still being done, at 1-200 yd. matches, with thrown charges. On the other hand, in the longer range matches (600 & 1,000) where SD is more important, and preloading is the practice, weighed charges seem to be the rule.
 
Thank for the confirmation
I though I was doing something fundementally wrong there for a while
I was expecting accuracy of 0.1 grain when I was sold the measure
I must go back to tell others in the UK

What I am amaze is the hear your benchrest crowd accepting 0.2 - 0.3 variation as norm
I will relax now and enjoy my reloading and shooting
Merry Christmas everybody
 
if it is not for the distance across the atlantic

I will be glad to pay for the return postage to harrel to check its components and ability to perform
believe I have been meticulous with my technique and methodology
as i said it does not do it all the time but once in a while only
OK will get the bounce out and try again if static is an issue
I did post the last thread here a few weeks ago in relation to static with my plastic funnel
 
londonhunter said:
Thank for the confirmation
I though I was doing something fundementally wrong there for a while
I was expecting accuracy of 0.1 grain when I was sold the measure
I must go back to tell others in the UK

What I am amaze is the hear your benchrest crowd accepting 0.2 - 0.3 variation as norm
I will relax now and enjoy my reloading and shooting
Merry Christmas everybody
Click to expand...



Another thing to keep an eye on is that you aren't full length sizing with a press from the same table that the measure is mounted onto. The vibrations from the press will settle the powder in the measure inconsistantly and cause heavy and light throws.

From your post which I have quoted it sounds as if you've given up already and are prepared more to tell everyone in the UK that Harrells powder measures don't work... When in fact you may just need more practice with the one you have.

Good Day,

Paul
 
Again thank you for the advice

I think the Harrell dealer in UK should inform customer that technique is important and that 0.3 variation is to be expected

However before we were offered this product we were told that I will thrown accurate charges like a RCBS chargemanster

once the customer expectation is raised you will fall harder. Thats exactly what happened here.

Even when I return to the same and only dealer in the UK I am told it should throw 0.1 accuracy and there is something wrong with my technique

At least I know now what its capability is and as i said before go and enjoy my shooting

Merry christmas everybody here
 
londonhunter

Almost all of the UK short-range benchrest shooters use the Harrel for 100 yard competition. Three-tenth of a grain is the best they do. It's fine for 100 yard benchrest. For 600 yard or 1000 yard benchrest, the Harrel stays in its box.

Cheers
Vince (UK)
 
While I've read people who say that with proper technique anyone can throw charges of ±0.1 gr no matter what the powder I think that they've either never weighed their charges or they need to reconsider what they're drinking or smoking. Even with some very small granuled ball type powders I have had trouble getting ±0.1 gr charges no matter what the measure. They'll go along at exactly what they should be then throw a heavy charge, a light one, a couple of heavy ones, then back to exactly on for a few. No rhyme or reason.

Throwing powder is sort of like stacking firewood. Not all the pieces are exactly the same, and we're trying to obtain a constant weight by measuring volume. Something that's nearly impossible with an irregular solid.
 
A powder measure is a tool.
If your tools don't do what you need for them to do so you can accomplish the task at hand,modify them to perform to your needs. The problem with the Harrell's measures is that ridiculous hex shaped feed hole( makes it easy to get rid of)that sits in the middle of the measure while the cavity that fills with powder is off to the right hand side of any direct, verticle gravity,powder drop. Use your imagination to fix it.
Joel
 
You mean that washer with the threads on the edge,and the funny looking hole in the center, that has been out of my measure since the first week that I got it? That one?
 
Harrell

Again thanks for the input

Make no mistake I like using it at the range and its design / engineering.

What I would like is the manufacturer to put on their website what accuracy it can achieve so me as a consumer can make my mind up BEFORE the purchase

After all would you even consider to an new rifle action manufacturer shall we say unless they out all their design features and tolorences on their sales literature ?

Again I am going to enjoy shooting and stop winging.

At least I know I have a normal Harrell and not a faulty one.
 
OK Londonhunter...... sorry to correct you in The Queen's Owne English but I think that's spelled (Brit) 'wingeing' or 'whinging'....

The other is for ducks

I realize it's just soooo presumptuous for this bohemian from the wrong side of the puddle but I couldn't resist.

;)

IMO buddy Vince pretty well nutshelled it.

pleasant days-in-the-middle-of-winter-that-are-no-longer-politically-correct-to-refer-to-in-the-religious-sense to you and yours

please

al
 
A comment on these Culver style measures or any volumetric measure of the rotating cavity style. If you will rotate the drum 180 degrees so the cavity parks under the hopper, you will get about 50% better results. What you are doing is putting a sustained-time loading on the dump cavity. Otherwise, the dump cavity compaction is at the mercy of how long you pause while it fills....Try it, you may like it...not as much as a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster but what the 'ell.
 
Any powder measure that throws by volume is not going to be spot on every time. I don't care if it's Lee's elcheapo or the best Harrells or Dodd. Some just work smoother than others. Accuracy depends on technique. This does not apply to the powered throwers like the Chargemaster. Same reason some people can get 31 grains in a 6ppc case and some can only get 29. It all in the technique.

Donald
 
londonhunter said:
I think the Harrell dealer in UK should inform customer that technique is important and that 0.3 variation is to be expected
However before we were offered this product we were told that I will thrown accurate charges like a RCBS chargemanster
Click to expand...

I own a Harrel’s measure and it is a very fine measure. Neither it nor my original Culver measure will dispense as accurately as the Chargemaster. It just is not going to happen. And some people feel even the Chargemaster is not accurate enough and use it’s output to feed loads to a higher resolution scale. Most shooters with a little practice can hold to less than .3 gr but not always. In short range BR within .3 is close enough for many people including a lot of top shooters. As you move to longer ranges many people like to know their load window is tighter than that.
Remember Harrel's has a satisfaction Guaranteed or money back policy, hopefully that also holds true in your case.

Dick
 
Dick Grosbier said:
Remember Harrel's has a satisfaction Guaranteed or money back policy, hopefully that also holds true in your case.

Dick
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that this "Guarantee" (Try our products - If you are not satisfied for any reason, just send it back.) only applies if you buy directly from Harrell's Precision. In fact, I am positive.

That "funny looking hole" in the powder baffle is broached to fit an allen wrench so that it can be screwed into the powder measure body.

If your dealer says that you can throw +/- .1 grain, then ask him to whip his Harrell out and show you how he does it. If he can't , you can then raise the Bullshat flag. He might also be B.S.'ing you about other stuff as well.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV
 
Here is a thought....

When temperatures and humidity change,... What happens to the size (volume) of your PPC Brass, or BR Brass?

.... What happens to the weight of the powder?

.... What happens to the size of the chamber in the Harrells (or any Culver measure)


Do you tune by volume, weight, or the amount of energy produced?

Just a thought

Paul
 
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