6ppc shots going way low

skeetlee

Active member
Just curious if anyone has ever had a rifle that threw shots out of the group low. Always low, and sometimes way low? Im not really asking for advise here as i have already discussed this with the gunsmith that built the rifle and we are working on it. I am just simply curious if anyone here has ever seen this? I think its my beading but we will soon no for sure. The rifle didnt seem to do this the first time out, but i didnt shoot it much either. I have had it out of the stock since, so i think this explains it. The barrel will stack 3 or more shots into a group about a .200 then it flips one out the bottom. Strangest darn thing i have ever seen. I chose to bed this action rather than glue it in and it might be haunting me now. I didnt glue this action in because, i am wanting to learn and do my own barrel work. I want to be able to take the action out of the stock when needed, or at least until i get the hang of barreling. The action i have doesnt have a cut out on the bottom and i think i may be stressing it when tightening the action screws?? The action kinda rolls around in the stock until i get it tight, and i dont think i am getting it back in its proper place. I really dont think its the barrel and i have a few tricks up my sleeve to help identify this occurrence. So again this post isnt a " i need help post" i am just interested in knowing if anyone else has seen this. thanks Lee
 
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FBecigneul
I think i am. i pay a lot of attention to my shooting, and i focus on doing the same things repeatable time after time. A good Technique and a solid foundation is everything to me. What i think, is that i should have glued this action in rather than just beading. I am not particularly fond of glue in, but i do believe it to work! After talking with Dwight, i think i may dab a few drops of JB under the action and see what happens. If problems go away, i will have the action glued. I think i may be over torquing the rear screw putting the action in a bind, or simply just not getting the action settled in the beading, These actions are so rounded, they want to rotate in the bed. I love this little action though. I like how they are made and i like how they feel. the big FAT bolt does something for me to! This will be my daughters rifle if she so chooses to shoot with me, and i hope she does. Also Dwight suggested i try more powder in this shilen barrel. He said 30gr isnt all that hot in a shilen. I don't normally shoot that much powder. but i will give it a shot. I try to shoot 4 times a week so i put a lot of bullets down range and i havent ever seen a barrel that would do this, so i think its sort of interesting actually. The barrel acts like it wants to shoot, and with a little this and that i think it will. Lee
 
I know why the dang thing wont shoot!!!!!!!! Its stamped on the bottom of the action.........SELL IT .........
 
Here is a little update.
The action was moving around in the beading. I took some JB and glued the action in and now everything is fine. This rifle looks real competitive. The round profile of the hall probably should have been glued from the get go, so now it is. I think the action was bouncing off the back tang flat area. I think this because here in my basement i can take the bolt and semi hard, jack it back and forth in the action and i can see the action move and bounce. I have to think that this was what was happening under recoil. I find these types of situations very interesting and informational. Lee
 
Did you check your bedding job with a dial indicator? A bedding job can look good to the eye, but a dial indicator will tell you whether it's any good or not. Run the dial indicator between the barrel and forend, loosen off the front action screw closest to the receiver face. If you get more than .002" movement, your rifle won't shoot to it's potential and is not bedded stress free. I had a 7 Rem Mag in my shop that was having accuracy problems. Checked the bedding and it had .0025" movement, which is pretty good for an un-bedded bedding block stock. It was shooting about .9" after fixing some other problems with it. Bedded it and had around .001" movement between barrel and forend. Average group size went from .9" to under .4".
 
Mike
I didnt check it with an indicator, but i do always loosen and re-tighten, and feel for any movement with my hand. i didn't feel anything. What i think was the deal is this. The little hall s action has rather small action screws, as this action was really meant to be glued. The pillars that were used in my stock, or blocks in this case, have pillar holes that are larger in diameter, than the hall screws, and the blocks are designed for more common actions like BAT Panda Nesika or what have you. Those actions have larger action screws. The hall is a rounded action, even in the tang, with not cut out on the bottom what so ever. I think the action was moving back and forth under recoil. I think this because while at home with the action screws semi tight, i could manipulate the action and barrel in the stock and actually see this happening. Now maybe that doesn't have anything to do with the action screws or the size of the pillar holes, but i do know the action was moving. All i did was, clean everything real good and then i applied some JB to the action and placed it back into the stock. I stood the rifle on end to make sure it was well against the rear tang, and back into the stock all the way. I then finished tightening the action screws. I would tighten the screws then relieve them. I did this a few times followed by a slight snugness of the screws. i didnt put the hurt or anything to the action screws though. Just good and snug. I let it sit over night, and the next morning i went and shot it. I didnt change anything else, other than the JB as i tried everything else before hand with no avail! Mike, if the action had some stress wouldn't it still have the same stress even after the JB?? I wouldn't know, but i just dont think this is the case. I have had rifles built that did have stress, and barrel movement, and you are right, they wont shoot worth a hoot. I started to use Tom M and i haven't had any more beading issues up until now.
The rifle is shooting quite well. Actually i think i may need to save this rifle and barrel for the super shoot, its shooting so well. My Borden rifle is also shooting well, so it will be a toss up as to what rifle i shoot. Like i told my buddy Boyd and Jim, i just knew it was a beading issue because, i would see the rifle shoot a few shots that would go into the same hole and then it would pitch one way low. Always low. I think this is because the rifle would either be back against the tang or it would be bounced forward. maybe kinda like if you would move the scope forward and back??? I am just glad the rifle is shooting. Now i just wonder how long the thin layer of JB will hold or if i should send it back to Tom and have it glued properly? Any thoughts? I sure don't blame any of this on Tom, as he did exactly what i asked him to do. I would highly recommend anyone else that is thinking about just pillar beading a hall action not to though, at least i wont ever again. I don't like glued in guns myself, but if the shoe fits, i wear them! Lee
 
Lee and Jim,

Please PM or txt me your addresses, I have something for you guys. Jim I need your number also as my phone took a dump and lost yours.

thanks
Hovis
 
really !!! what is it ? Bullets....:)

PM sent , Kevin
 
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Here's an idea

I had 2 custom Defiance 3 screw actions built last year with a cutout milled across the bottom of them. The cutout is different from the one Bat uses in that the front is a straight 90 degrees and the rear is a sloped radius. Still easy to take out and put back together the same way a barreled action with a standard recoil lug is. Just rest the gun on the butt while tightening. Before bedding, the stocks had a slot routered into them where the 90 degree part of the cutout rests and a piece of aluminum flat stock was bedded into the stock so the action’s slot was bedded against it. Sort of a hybrid Bat, Tikka recoil lug. The rear tangs are but they’re free in that the tang doesn’t act as a recoil lug. The guns shot so good that I just had my backup Kelbly Griz2 redone the same way and all its barrels bumped for lug free use.
 

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