6PPC no turn neck reamer??

R

redfeather

New member
I ordered a PTG Dave Kiff no turn reamer, and Dave said I wanted it to be a size .274 diameter neck. I loaded several kinds of 6PPC brass Norma, SSA, Lapua, etc with 6mm bullets and they all run between .265 to .267 diameter. So, I believe I need a .270 diameter neck reamer?? Please give this Army Colonel some advise because I need to call dave to change this by Monday morning. Thanks in advance.
 
Has anyone measured the .220 Russian with a 6mm??

Measured the .220 Russian with a 6mm bullet seated?? I do not have any new .220 Russian, or I would seat a bullet and measure the OD. I just prefer a better varmint chamber...that is not way over size. Any info is much appreciated.
 
The 6mm Beggs no-turn neck diameter is .2740. This works perfectly with Lapua 220 Russian cases necked up to 6mm. The loaded round measures .2710.

Three thousandths difference between the loaded round and the neck ID is perfect for a no turn 6ppc. Most benchresters use .0015 to .0020 with their tight neck chambers. Have you considered the no turn 6mm Beggs? Same velocity as the 6ppc using two grains less powder. Custom sizing dies and seaters are made by Hornady. Pluck the Lapua 220 Russian case from the box, run it over the 6mm expander, load and shoot. :D

Gene Beggs
 
Gene...

We met at the Blue Bonnet shoot at Howard Dietz range. I considered the 6mm Beggs, but I wanted to stick with the 6PPC. I have Redding dies and to me forming the .220 russian to 6PPC is easy enough. So, maybe I need to stay with what Dave Kiff is telling me which is .274 neck diameter? This seems on the large size, but again I do not have any new .220 Russian brass to seat 6mm bullets in...I believe what you are saying. How is the wind tunnel testing in west Texas going...by the looks of your groups it has to be great. Thanks.
 
Gene Beggs said:
The 6mm Beggs no-turn neck diameter is .2740. This works perfectly with Lapua 220 Russian cases necked up to 6mm. The loaded round measures .2710.

Three thousandths difference between the loaded round and the neck ID is perfect for a no turn 6ppc. Most benchresters use .0015 to .0020 with their tight neck chambers. Have you considered the no turn 6mm Beggs? Same velocity as the 6ppc using two grains less powder. Custom sizing dies and seaters are made by Hornady. Pluck the Lapua 220 Russian case from the box, run it over the 6mm expander, load and shoot. :D

Gene Beggs
Click to expand...

Gene, I thought you had backed off the no turn neck for the 6mm. The last I remember after your first test you said that subsequent boxes of 220 brass weren't consistent enough for no turn. I've got about 17 boxes of new Lapua 220 Russian and was planning to go with .269 necks to have minimal turning. Could you clear this up for me. By the way, I haven't told anyone about the secret blue liquid you used at the last match at Raton.
 
redfeather said:
We met at the Blue Bonnet shoot at Howard Dietz range. I considered the 6mm Beggs, but I wanted to stick with the 6PPC. I have Redding dies and to me forming the .220 russian to 6PPC is easy enough. So, maybe I need to stay with what Dave Kiff is telling me which is .274 neck diameter? This seems on the large size, but again I do not have any new .220 Russian brass to seat 6mm bullets in...I believe what you are saying. How is the wind tunnel testing in west Texas going...by the looks of your groups it has to be great. Thanks.
Click to expand...


You will be very happy with the no-turn version of the 6PPC. I have in stock, custom carbide bushings for the 274 necks.

Lots of exciting things are going on at the tunnel in West Texas. I hope you can come for a visit soon. The weather in WT this time of year is wonderful.

GeneBeggs
 
adamsgt said:
Gene, I thought you had backed off the no turn neck for the 6mm. The last I remember after your first test you said that subsequent boxes of 220 brass weren't consistent enough for no turn. I've got about 17 boxes of new Lapua 220 Russian and was planning to go with .269 necks to have minimal turning. Could you clear this up for me. By the way, I haven't told anyone about the secret blue liquid you used at the last match at Raton.
Click to expand...

The secret blue liquid? :eek: ;) Oh yes; now I remember. :D :D

For those of you who are wondering what that secret blue liquid was, it was Windex! Yep, plain old Windex. I was asked more than once what I used it for. I would keep you in suspense but I'll go ahead and tell you right up front. It's to clean my glasses. :cool: Pretty high tech; huh?

The real reason I quit pushing the no-turn versions of my cartridges is because most benchresters are reluctant to believe they could possibly be as accurate as their carefully prepared tight necks. The truth? It's all in the mind. I would not hesitate for a minute to go the Nationals or Super Shoot with no-turn chambers.

At the very least, when a shooter chooses the tight neck version of my cartridge, it removes any doubt about one being more acccurate than the other and as any experienced shooter knows, confidence in your equipment is very important. And besides that, it gives us an excuse to own and play with all that neat neck turning stuff. :D

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
You are a Patriot and Great American...

I prefer someone with your experience and wisdom. Young shooter take notes...pulling the trigger and seeing the results is...priceless. Middle aged Army Colonels appreciate experience. I will hold fast to my no turn neck 6PPC...and keep you posted. Again...many thanks for your time spent loading and testing in west Texas. I spent 4 years in 8" artillery in West Texas...I am fond of the area and down to earth folks there...you make us proud every day.
 
Gene Beggs

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have at least 17 unopened boxes of Lapua 220 Russian brass and I need to decide what I'm going to do with them. I want to get ready to do whatever I decide over the winter months when I can't shoot. Fortunately you can shoot almost all year here in Fort worth. So, some questions.

Could you post or prepare a list of the different calibers you developed/promoted and what equipment, dies, seaters etc, you have available or where it is available? Your 6mm Beggs stuff doesn't show up on Hornady's web site.

If I were to get a reamer for the no turn neck would I be able to just open up the neck on an existing 6ppc .262/.269 barrel without having to trim and re-thread the barrel? I hate chasing threads. :eek:
 
adamsgt said:
As I mentioned in my previous post, I have at least 17 unopened boxes of Lapua 220 Russian brass and I need to decide what I'm going to do with them. I want to get ready to do whatever I decide over the winter months when I can't shoot. Fortunately you can shoot almost all year here in Fort worth. So, some questions.

Could you post or prepare a list of the different calibers you developed/promoted and what equipment, dies, seaters etc, you have available or where it is available? Your 6mm Beggs stuff doesn't show up on Hornady's web site.

If I were to get a reamer for the no turn neck would I be able to just open up the neck on an existing 6ppc .262/.269 barrel without having to trim and re-thread the barrel? I hate chasing threads. :eek:
Click to expand...


At this time, the Hornady and Wilson dies for the Beggs cartridges are available only from me. My biggest concern is for maintaining standardization. Everything about the Beggs accuracy system was designed to work together; the stock, cartridges, dies, tuners and barrel indexing system. You can have either a .224 bore or .243 in either no-turn or tight neck. The tight neck 220 uses a 250 neck diameter. The tight neck version of the 6mm, .269. Custom dies and carbide bushings are in stock for all neck diameters.

If I had a good supply of Lapua 220 Russian cases on hand, I would chamber two new barrels; one in 220 Beggs and one in 6mm. The same die sizes both cartridges but you will need two seater dies which I have in stock. I can chamber the barrels for you and install tuners and barrel indexers at the same time. No need to buy your own reamer unless you prefer to do your own work. I assure you, the chambers are standardized.

Let me know how I can help you.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene Beggs

Gene Beggs said:
If I had a good supply of Lapua 220 Russian cases on hand, I would chamber two new barrels; one in 220 Beggs and one in 6mm. The same die sizes both cartridges but you will need two seater dies which I have in stock. I can chamber the barrels for you and install tuners and barrel indexers at the same time. No need to buy your own reamer unless you prefer to do your own work. I assure you, the chambers are standardized.
Click to expand...

I think I remember that you use one sizing die but different neck bushings for the 220 and 6mm Beggs. OK Gene, I'll send you a pm with my contact info and we can start a dialog on what path I can take, what I'll need, and how much it will cost. :) Maybe it's time for you to set up your own web site with all this info on it.

By the way, how far is your tunnel from Fort Worth?
 
adamsgt said:
I think I remember that you use one sizing die but different neck bushings for the 220 and 6mm Beggs. OK Gene, I'll send you a pm with my contact info and we can start a dialog on what path I can take, what I'll need, and how much it will cost. :) Maybe it's time for you to set up your own web site with all this info on it.

By the way, how far is your tunnel from Fort Worth?
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Yes, I have been procrastinating on getting a web site. It's time; isn't it?

The tunnel is about 5.5 hours west of Fort Worth on I-20. Why not board a Southwest jet and fly out to the Midland International Airport. I'll pick you up there and in twenty minutes we will be at the tunnel. You can shoot my rifle and we can discuss the details. We got some great Mexican food and steaks out here too. :cool:

Looking forward to seeing you.

Gene beggs
 
Mr. Beggs,

Sorry that I probably missed this information as it was likely posted in the past.

What variation in neck thickness is small enough that you can't demonstrate that it matters to group size? I saw a reference that some .220 brass was good enough to you and some wasn't and it made me wonder.

I shoot long range highpower and of course external ballisitics matter greatly to us. I suspect that you short range shooters can demonstrate differences in things like neck turning that we can't see on target. There's just too much air between us and the target for us to prove something like neck turning one way or another.

Thanks for all of the interesting reading here on this board.
John Whidden
 
Gene Beggs said:
The tunnel is about 5.5 hours west of Fort Worth on I-20. Why not board a Southwest jet and fly out to the Midland International Airport. I'll pick you up there and in twenty minutes we will be at the tunnel. You can shoot my rifle and we can discuss the details. We got some great Mexican food and steaks out here too. :cool:

Looking forward to seeing you.

Gene beggs
Click to expand...

Gene, I would have to drive to Love Field in Dallas to catch a Southwest flight and I would rather have a root canal without Novocaine than drive in Dallas traffic. I drive so much between Fort Worth and Raton/Trinidad that I wouldn't mind driving to Midland. How much time there should I plan for?

You didn't answer my question about opening up the neck on my current barrels and sometime during the night my subconscious figured it out, I think. Your 6mm Beggs is shorter than the 6ppc so I'd still have cut and re-thread if I wanted to re-use the barrel. Thanks for not pointing out my "DUH" moment. I don't mind though. :eek:
 
adamsgt said:
Gene, I would have to drive to Love Field in Dallas to catch a Southwest flight and I would rather have a root canal without Novocaine than drive in Dallas traffic. I drive so much between Fort Worth and Raton/Trinidad that I wouldn't mind driving to Midland. How much time there should I plan for?

You didn't answer my question about opening up the neck on my current barrels and sometime during the night my subconscious figured it out, I think. Your 6mm Beggs is shorter than the 6ppc so I'd still have cut and re-thread if I wanted to re-use the barrel. Thanks for not pointing out my "DUH" moment. I don't mind though. :eek:
Click to expand...

You're right, it's not a bad drive from the DFW/FTW Metroplex to Midland/Odessa.

I don't like the idea of opening up the neck of an existing chamber. If the barrel is long enough, I prefer to cut the existing tenon off and start from scratch.

With some chambers, it is practical to set the barrel back a couple of threads and cut a fresh chamber as long as the reamer will completely clear the old chamber. The shoulder diameter of my 6Beggs is .402, the PPC .431 so it would not be practical in this case. Unless you do your own work, it's best to start with a new barrel. I have had good success with shortening a HV barrel to LV length and creating a completely new chamber.

This would be a good time of year to visit the tunnel. Time? Whatever you prefer. Let me know. I can be reached at 432-631-5124

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
redfeather said:
Measured the .220 Russian with a 6mm bullet seated?? I do not have any new .220 Russian, or I would seat a bullet and measure the OD.
Click to expand...
I have on hand a set of Lapua 220 russian brass (circa 2005?) that has been through 4 firings, and the neck measurement with the bullet seated (Berger) is .269. (I have a Sako 6PPC-USA with a .270 chamber neck).

I also have on hand a brand new batch of Lapua 220 Russian brass that I bought last year which I've prepped for fire forming and loaded with the same bullets. Much to my chagrin, the neck measurement with the bullet seated is .271! I measured the neck thickness, and sure enough it is about a thou thicker than the older lot. Looks like I get to go buy a neck turner anyway..
 
I have a

270 neck ppc and it definately needs turning on my 220 russian brass. 273/4 is pretty close I bet.
 
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