First things first I am no expert, i'm only 17. I recently have taken an interest in benchrest shooting, specifically short range 1-300 yds. I inherited everything from my grandfather ,so i'm working with what I could dig out of an attic. That said i'm working with pretty sweet gear from what I can gather, wilson dies and pact scales and so on. the current setup is pretty ghetto but i'm working to improve it. Getting to the point, I am looking for advice on working up loads. I am seeing frequent flyers in my current 6ppc load and I was hoping for some constructive input. My current load i'm testing is 26.7 gr of h322 topped by a 68gr benchrest bullet jumping .015(.262 neck diameter). All six groups below were shot at 100 yards with little to no wind. my first guess would be inconsistent neck tension. I noticed that some of my bullets would move in the case necks if I pulled hard enough. This did not seem to effect seating depth as they measured the same as with bullets this didn't happen with. I counted about seven bullets out of thirty that this happened with. Help?
6ppc load help?
- Thread starter .22 ppc
- Start date
Please don't take this wrongly, but what I see ISN'T THE LOAD
Just my personal opinion/observation but I'd like to see you try three things.....
#1, set out something for flags.....4ft wood stakes with some surveyors ribbon hanging down, left over party balloons on a string, even a strip of light cloth.
#2, really really work on your setup......Make sure everything is settled in and tracking repeatably. This is quite difficult until you've seen it done.
#3, really really work on your delivery....... Concentrate on easing the trigger STRAIGHT back, try to touch the stock the same if you touch it at all. Try free recoil? Try assuming that the gun is shooting, try to make all your groups look the same.......
And WHATEVER YOU DO......if you get 'er tracking and get four into the same hole, DO NOT get excited and blow that 5th shot...
that would be just wrong....
al
Please don't take this wrongly, but what I see ISN'T THE LOAD
Just my personal opinion/observation but I'd like to see you try three things.....
#1, set out something for flags.....4ft wood stakes with some surveyors ribbon hanging down, left over party balloons on a string, even a strip of light cloth.
#2, really really work on your setup......Make sure everything is settled in and tracking repeatably. This is quite difficult until you've seen it done.
#3, really really work on your delivery....... Concentrate on easing the trigger STRAIGHT back, try to touch the stock the same if you touch it at all. Try free recoil? Try assuming that the gun is shooting, try to make all your groups look the same.......
And WHATEVER YOU DO......if you get 'er tracking and get four into the same hole, DO NOT get excited and blow that 5th shot...
that would be just wrong....
al
first off, thank you. I agree with everything you said 100%, but the reason I think it is the load is because my 22ppc will shoot one hole groups pretty consistently. I've looked over the gun and the scope and everything checks out, and with only about 900 rounds through the tube I wouldn't think the barrel is spent yet.
Neck tension won't affect the groups that much. There's something else wrong! If your groups are smaller, always smaller, when shooting the 22 PPC you might not need flags at this moment. Begin with a methodical effort to determine what's wrong. Find the max load, reduce it a bit so your cases will last and seat the bullets just touching the rifling - a visual mark on the bullet but not interfering with the bolt closure....and have at it. You might begin by swapping scopes. Make sure the neck diameter of the loaded rounds is smaller than the chamber diameter with every case...in every case...however you want to say that.
That said, you're gonna need some wind flags if you don't have any. Saying the wind ain't blowing when you don't have flags might not be correct.
Some barrels are "spent" before a single shot is fired but prolly not your barrel. There would be no reason at all to shoot 900 rounds in a benchrest rifle that shoots that poorly.
That said, you're gonna need some wind flags if you don't have any. Saying the wind ain't blowing when you don't have flags might not be correct.
Some barrels are "spent" before a single shot is fired but prolly not your barrel. There would be no reason at all to shoot 900 rounds in a benchrest rifle that shoots that poorly.
Here is an update. First I changed primers to remington 7-1/2 instead of federal 205m. I changed bushings from .258 to .257, there is also a .255 bushing in the box. I bumped the charge to 27 grains. I also tried free recoil instead of gripping the gun. Here are the results. My grandfathers name was Bob Latimer if that means anything to you.
Tim Singleton
Member
If the rifle has a weight system make sure it is tight
Looks like free recoil shooting has helped a lot from the first post
Posts some pics of the rifle in your rest and bags. Looks like something is loose somewhere
Maybe some new brass in the near future the sako brass maybe ready to toss
Looks like free recoil shooting has helped a lot from the first post
Posts some pics of the rifle in your rest and bags. Looks like something is loose somewhere
Maybe some new brass in the near future the sako brass maybe ready to toss
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"Bob Latimer" rings a bell for sure!
I think you should take those loose neck cases and find the max load your rifle can shoot and maintain case integrity. Take enough stuff to the range to determine that. Like Tim said, if the cases are old you need new ones. Be sure to turn the necks so they will chamber correctly. BTW - you do understand that you have a chamber that requires neck turning don't you? Once I know you are aware of that I'll hush about it.
I think you should take those loose neck cases and find the max load your rifle can shoot and maintain case integrity. Take enough stuff to the range to determine that. Like Tim said, if the cases are old you need new ones. Be sure to turn the necks so they will chamber correctly. BTW - you do understand that you have a chamber that requires neck turning don't you? Once I know you are aware of that I'll hush about it.
B
bluechip
Guest
I noticed on your target, you wrote Sako for brass type, try Lapua. And just in case anybody here insists Sako cases are better, I have 80-100 new ones never shot but turned for a .262 neck I would part with cheap.
Lee Martin
Active member
Don't worry about tuning with neck tension. I'd probably do 0.002" with H322 and then tinker with seating depth and charge. Take a practice target and make each row a given weight of powder. Jam the bullet, shoot a 2 or 3 shot group, and seat back in 0.003" - 0.005" increments. Then up your charge 0.3 grs and move to the next row again using jam as the starting point.
Illustrated (in this case I did jam+5 back to jam - 10):
You'll quickly find what the gun likes. And as suggested, always shoot over flags.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Illustrated (in this case I did jam+5 back to jam - 10):
You'll quickly find what the gun likes. And as suggested, always shoot over flags.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Yep I know to turn the necks, that's why I haven't used the 10 old boxes of new brass. I have a hand turner and it is a very time consuming task. All the brass I'm using currently is on its 5th or 6th fire.
Attachments
Six shots on a case is just getting them warmed up.
Begin turning some cases right now so you'll have them when you need them. You don't have to turn a set at one sitting and they don't have to be perfect but rather safe to shoot in your chamber. What you really need to do at this point is find the load your rifle likes and that might cause you to need some more cases. If you've got a little cash to throw around you can buy better cases already neck turned.
Begin turning some cases right now so you'll have them when you need them. You don't have to turn a set at one sitting and they don't have to be perfect but rather safe to shoot in your chamber. What you really need to do at this point is find the load your rifle likes and that might cause you to need some more cases. If you've got a little cash to throw around you can buy better cases already neck turned.
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
Don't worry about tuning with neck tension. I'd probably do 0.002" with H322 and then tinker with seating depth and charge. Take a practice target and make each row a given weight of powder. Jam the bullet, shoot a 2 or 3 shot group, and seat back in 0.003" - 0.005" increments. Then up your charge 0.3 grs and move to the next row again using jam as the starting point.
Illustrated (in this case I did jam+5 back to jam - 10):
You'll quickly find what the gun likes. And as suggested, always shoot over flags.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Hope what I'm doing isn't a hijack. Lee, you use Jam + and jam -. Is there a convention on what this means? I interpret jam +5 to mean that the bullet is seated further out and thus further into the lands. and the reverse for jam -5. I bring this up because of some mental mental gymnastics I was going through the other day when I was loading both 6ppc and .308 Win. I was setting up load testing as you show here, using the same targets. I use a Wilson seating die with micrometer top for the .308 loads and a Sinclair Micrometer seating die for the 6ppc. I was having to pay strict attention to adjusting the dies for each setting depth and it seemed to be taking too long to get the correct setting done. It finally dawned on that the issue was the difference in the micrometer tops on the dies. The numbered index on the micrometer top for the Wilson die decreases in value as the top is rotated counter-clockwise moving the top out. So if jam is a certain value on the top, jam+ 5 is a smaller number. So if you go out, you set the top to as smaller number. The Sinclair die is the opposite with the numbers increasing as the top is rotated counter-clockwise. I'm trying to keep better notes of my load development so I'll have to keep track of what die I use for each caliber. I have a similar Wilson die with micro top for 30 BR, so I'll have to watch that as well. Too much confusion for an old brain.
ttfreestyle
New member
Which one
So which load did you pick on that target? I am New and still learning, thanks
Don't worry about tuning with neck tension. I'd probably do 0.002" with H322 and then tinker with seating depth and charge. Take a practice target and make each row a given weight of powder. Jam the bullet, shoot a 2 or 3 shot group, and seat back in 0.003" - 0.005" increments. Then up your charge 0.3 grs and move to the next row again using jam as the starting point.
Illustrated (in this case I did jam+5 back to jam - 10):
You'll quickly find what the gun likes. And as suggested, always shoot over flags.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
So which load did you pick on that target? I am New and still learning, thanks
Boyd Allen
Active member
If you look at the entire top row, you will see that soft seating (seating longer than jam and letting the bullet be seated to final length as the round is chambered) produced excellent accuracy across the entire range of charge weights. This is a very good example of the importance of seating depth to load tuning. So often I read of shooters spending most of their time exploring charge weight almost to the exclusion of seating depth. This target demonstrates a better approach. While not necessarily the case with all powder bullet combinations, in this case, the difference in tuning node width was quite striking. It looks like any of the powder charges could have won a match, but 28.3 does stand out in that it showed up well in all but one of the rows.
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Lee Martin
Active member
Boyd is right. Jam +5 is just seating 0.005" longer than the jam length. The bullet is pushed back 5-thou upon chambering. This Shilen combined with my 67 gr FB seem to like that depth across a range of charges (264 chamber, brass turned 0.0095", 0.0015" neck tension, 0.0015" neck clearance). I've been shooting both 27.7 and 28.3 exclusively at jam + 5 with good results. One caveat though. When the humidity is low, say under 60%, the gun aggs better with 28.3. When the humidity rises much above 70% it wants the lower 27.7 node. I'm still learning LT-32 but believe it can shoot in wet air.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
It sounds like "Jam + 5" is essentially shooting at "Jam"; thus, I wonder why the top row looks so much better than the second row.