6mmbrx annealing problem

J

jawbreaker

Guest
I am getting to the point that I need to anneal my brass. I have annealed many 308 cases with the 1/2 inch socket spinning the case thru the flame method dunked in H20. I am concerned with over heating the web area with this method in 6mmbrx. Does anyone have a rec on the method to anneal 6mm brx brass?
Thanx,
Tom
 
Every piece of brass I anneal is sitting in ice water, spinning at 60 RPM. You can use a kids pottery wheel with a bowl of icewater sitting on it. This is how I started and have refined the process over 2-3 years.
 
I have a setup spinning about like Jeff's and it takes only about 6 to 7 sec. to get the necks just turning a dull maroon. They are then plucked up and dumped in the CLR (calcium, lyme, rust remover)(it cleans out the inside of the cases also). I can hardly see where enough heat is transferred (in that short time) to the base to cause a problem? The base in turning inside an aluminum fixture also?
I have not had any come apart or loosen primer pockets?
Rich De
 
I use an electric screwdriver with the K&M neck turning head. Propane torch. No ice water, though I do quench. Torch flame is applied to the shoulder as it spins. This for PPC cases, which are "at least" as small. No problems, and I load the PPC hot -- close to 70,000 psi.

On the other hand, I feel maroon is too hot. Using 670-degree tempilac at first, I got enough experience to judge by color -- a silver color is what you want. If you're one of the "red in a dark room" sort, I think this too hot. The brass will get too soft, and the grain size will increase. Read Ken Howell's book Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges.

If you disagree, let's not start a war over the proper temperature. Decide what is right, then get tempilac & use it until you eye is trained to use color. A lot of old wives tales out there.
 
LOL, "dull red" - how about bright orange? I learned the hard way - on 200 pieces of 22-250 brass - that MAP gas is a little too hot to anneal with! I still loaded them one last time and they shoot fine but that is all I will shoot them. They are scrap now. I switched to propane and it takes like Rich says about 6-7 seconds.

My brass comes out of the quench looking like factory lapua brass - with a clear demarcation of the annealed zone on the case.

I will take a pic of my new setup tomorrow and post it. I think I have about $25 in it, not counting my labor or some linear bearings I had laying around for 15 years.
 
I use an old gear driven apparatus that turns about 45 rpm. It has a stainless steel bowl and an aluminum pedistol with a stepped
recess which will center and hold 3 different head sizes. The bowl will hold about 1 1/2 pints of water.Focusing a propane torch
on the shoulder and watching the blue line, travel just below the shoulder. No red on necks. Did some 22-250's that were near
45 years old and not used yet. I do kick them over into the water with a pencil although they sit in half inch of water on the post.
 
Charles...............I got the "maroon" from Charles Bailey about ten years ago and have done it ever since?
Rich De
 
Rich, "Maroon" is a tough color to work with. If you mean a shade of brown, I think it not quite enough, a "dull red" I think too much. Obviously, whatever you're doing works for you.
 
Even though I am relatively new to Long Range Benchrest I have been shooting for many years. Over those years I have annealed thousands of cases. I have used just about every method I could find to do that, I have also ruined my share of cases over the years. Finally I broke down and purchased a Ballistic Edge Manufacturing annealing machine ( best money I ever spent too ). When I purchaed this machine and in my conversations with Jerry Brandon owner of Ballistic Edge, he told me to start off with a temp of 725º, and to not get the case base hotter than 325º. His recommendation was to use Templaq temperature sensitive paint to get these temps correct. I found the Templaq online and it was a very easy thing to adjust the Ballistic Edge to these temps.

No with this said The Ballistic Edge machine while a great product is expensive and just not for everyone. But the Templaq sure could be. This stuff comes in many different temperature's and is in a inexpensive 2oz bottle. Dap a little on the case neck the temp you want to anneal at, dap a little different temp for the base so you will know just how hot they get and go after it.

Very simple way to "KNOW" what temperature you are annealing at and not guessing as with the Dull Red-or Maroon- Or Orange-- way of annealing.

Roland
 
Charles,
Where do you apply the Templaq on PPC cases? I am very interested in how you do that caliber. Your putting the flame on the shoulder makes good sense to me, given how thin the necks usually are. I would think that putting the flame on thin necks would get them to the target temperature before the shoulders had gotten hot enough to reduce the effects of work hardening. What powder are you using?
Rich,
I believe that different calibers have differing needs for neck tension/hardness, and that accounts for one shooter being successful with a different amount of neck softening than another who is also successful. A high sectional density bullet may not have the same need for neck tension to contribute to peak pressure as a short range bullet with a low sectional density. Also, different powders have different requirements. For example, 133 likes a lot of neck tension, while other powders that I have tried (same caliber and bullet), did not need it.
Roland,
I too believe that it is better to know. For annealers on a tighter budget, who may find it difficult to watch a timer, while paying attention to flame alignment with their cases, and Templaq (for initial setup and testing) I suggest an inexpensive electronic metronome, set to 60 beats per minute. A friend tried this, at my suggestion, and after several hundred cases he is now able to note the progression of the annealing line down the case, which tells him when to tip the case out of his Hornady holder, into bucket of water (which I don't think he needs). He did his initial testing with Templaq, I believe that the Hornady kit uses a lower temperature applied on the shoulder. He tells me that his annealed cases have much more uniform feel when seating bullets, and accuracy is noticeably improved. This is with varmint bullets .22-250, and .223. He is a careful loader and skilled shooter.
 
Boyd, IIRC, I put a splash of tempilac up near the case mouth, on the neck. Then heat the shoulder, more or less at the body/shoulder junction. They wobble a bit. The K&M assembly is also acting as a heat sink, and I do quench. The description to "make a case (after cooled) look like a Lapua case" is pretty good, but it's not quite as easy as one might first think. It looks a bit different under heat, and there are details. I run the torch about 6 seconds -- which might just mean I hold it farther away, use a lower heat, whatever.

Roland's description, using two tempilac temperatures, sounds like the ideal way. I still prefer 700F -- but that 25 degree difference is likely lost in the noise.
 
I use a Benchsource annealer. I set the time in flame where the case neck just barely turns to a hint of orange.
 
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