6mm PPC small base case vs normal base, measurements plz....

yes you are right. I don't have any die yet.

but I believe I may have found someone being able to legally sent the 3 sample brass to the States, to Harrell's
I will let you know pretty soon if things work out ...

I checked again with white board black ink what's causing the bolt to be hard to close on a round... here's what I did....

put ink on the mouth of a fired case and closed the bolt a few times : the ink is still there, so the mouth is not touching the end of chamber. Plus my case measure on average 1.496, which I believe should be ok according to some case manufacturers . ( new case are 1.5 or a bit longer I read) this should not affect the bolt

put ink on the neck of a fired case and closed the bolt a few times: the ink is still there, so the neck is not rubbing. no point of testing a loaded round because neck is smaller on a loaded round in my case anyway. this should not affect the bolt

put ink on the shoulder of a fired case and closed the bolt a few times: showing the case is rubbing against the chamber..

put ink from where the case web ends and 1/2" toward he mouth: showing the case is rubbing against the chamber

I then did the intimate sacrifice and cut in half length wise the case and kept only the bottom, but it in the chamber and close the bolt a few times on it.... the bolt is not hard to close.

so I have found the culprit I believe.... the shoulder is to long... maybe the previous owner would only neck size....

it is now as clear as white board black ink can be.... hehe

happy shooting
stef
 
so now,
when you get a die and size your brass,
it may push brass down and out.
the base may expand (depends on the die)
and while the shoulder is good,
the base is now fat.
remember i said MAYBE
we will not know till you get your
FIRST die.
 
herbeapuce said:
I have some Cerrosafe here somewhere in my stuff.... I will call Harrell's and see what he thinks of this..... if I remember right , one had just a few hours to get an accurate measurement with cerrosafe, then it would expand...( or shrink? )

tonight I checked why , at thee range the other day, the bolt was very hard to close.. I used a white board black marker to paint the neck and shoulder of a couple of spent case. the problem in obvious. they all need a good push back on the shoulder.... it rubs big time.

so I'm wondering , are my brass even good enough to send to harrell's ? or maybe that's exactly what he needs ?


( sorry i'm all over the place with my questions,... as you can see i'm very enthusiasm about my new toy... it's all new to me. )

stef.
Click to expand...

Cerrosafe shrinks immediately after hardening.
This allow you to remove the casting from the chamber.
It then enlarges as it cools further and is dead on around 30-60 minutes.
It continues to enlarge as it cools even further.
The amount (% or micro-inches per inch) ) is VERY well known and easily adjusted for after completely cooling (usually 4 or more hours unless it is a very large casting).
 
Last edited:
Just my 2 cents worth

First, I did not notice the Manufacturer of the brass you are using.
Second, I did not read how many times each piece of brass had been shot/fired/sized.

Before getting into the notes below it is imperative that you know the Chamber Neck Diameter.
Cerro Safe would be a good choice.
If not one can carefully expand the neck of the case and keep expanding till you FEEL the case neck coming in contact with the chamber, or it rubs off the Dykem or Prussian Blue you applied. This is available at any industrial supply house.
Please remove the firing pin from the bolt for all this type of feel stuff.

Third. Have you checked www.accurateshooter.com and gone to the 6PPC cartridge listed on the left side of the web site? Yes, there is a drawing there but it might not match your chamber.

Fourth: I would purchase, Your choice,NEW Brass. I suggest Lapua .220 Russian.
Check the OAL length (write it down and save this information)

Take three .220R Lapua cases, load, and measure the loaded neck at the pressure ring of the neck after neck expanding to the 6mm size of you bullet. What bullet are you using?

For instance if your loaded case measurement is .271" diameter and your chamber neck is less DO NOT PROCEED.
You will have to get into neck turning before you proceed. (IE about 0.002" less than the chamber you are working with.)

If your chamber neck is reamed 0.262" you will have to turn your necks about 0.0086" to arrive at a safe .2602" diameter. Or 0.0018" safe clearance.

The 3 New Lapua cases need to be reloaded correctly and fired 3x each total to be sent to Harrells.
Harrells will send you a die and a Gizzy but you will need a dial caliper to understand the measurement you receive.
This measurement will be the shoulder/datum to the head (primer removed before measuring).
Once you have this measurement (write it down) you can adjust the Harrell die for the 0.001"-0.0015"-0.002" size you wish to use.
Oh, the three cases you send will be returned to you. Put them in a container (medicine bottle) and mark the bottle.
Keep them forever with the barrel you are using now.
New barrel, new reamer, new chamber, yes, probably new Harrell die with 3 cases fired 3x as stated above.

Also I am unsure of what measuring tools you have and therefore what you might need to purchase to measure accurately. I hope this helps you in your new journey. Go slow, be careful.
Now we are going to enjoy advanced reloading.
Good shooting,
Centerfire
 
@ centerfire.
I already send the 3 brass to someone in Alberta. He is in the business and will get the brass to Harrell’s I’m also getting the Harrell arbor press, a shoulder gage, the .257 and .258 bushings and a good seating die….

First, I did not notice the Manufacturer of the brass you are using. The rifle came with no history records, came with 50 loaded Norma handloaded round, unknown power and primer. I was also given 50 once fired Sako brass that I intend to use later
Second, I did not read how many times each piece of brass had been shot/fired/sized. I do not have this info, but they don’t show obvious signs of early retirement. I suspect the previous owner only neck sized those brass, as they are now getting long and the bolt is hard to close on them.

Before getting into the notes below it is imperative that you know the Chamber Neck Diameter.
Cerro Safe would be a good choice. It is written NCK 262 on the barrel. But I have cerrosafe and I will check soon.
If not one can carefully expand the neck of the case and keep expanding till you FEEL the case neck coming in contact with the chamber, or it rubs off the Dykem or Prussian Blue you applied. This is available at any industrial supply house. I used to use candle smoke for this, now I use whiteboard marker black ink.
Please remove the firing pin from the bolt for all this type of feel stuff.

Third. Have you checked www.accurateshooter.com and gone to the 6PPC cartridge listed on the left side of the web site? Yes, there is a drawing there but it might not match your chamber.not yet. I will eventually read it I’m sure…

Fourth: I would purchase, Your choice,NEW Brass. I suggest Lapua .220 Russian. Yes I am aware of those being the best choice, but right now I will work with what I have, but yes those are the ones I will buy
Check the OAL length (write it down and save this information) did you mean shoulder to head?

Take three .220R Lapua cases, load, and measure the loaded neck at the pressure ring of the neck after neck expanding to the 6mm size of you bullet. What bullet are you using? 68g Berger Match #24411. The gun also came with 2 brand new box of those bullets.

For instance if your loaded case measurement is .271" diameter and your chamber neck is less DO NOT PROCEEB. The loaded round that came with the rifle seems to be neck turned for 2 different thickness:
The last section of the neck is thinner that the section closer to the shoulder.
The section near the mouth is on average 0.2607 thick, (around 0.168 long)
The one closer to the shoulder is 0.2628 thick . not the safest maybe….
You will have to get into neck turning before you proceed. (IE about 0.002" less than the chamber you are working with.) yes I will buy the outside neck turning attachment for my Forster case trimmer and turn the neck to be safe.
If your chamber neck is reamed 0.262" should be at least that.you will have to turn your necks about 0.0086" to arrive at a safe .2602" diameter. Or 0.0018" safe clearance.

The 3 New Lapua cases need to be reloaded correctly and fired 3x each total to be sent to Harrells.
Harrells will send you a die and a Gizzy but you will need a dial caliper to understand the measurement you receive.
This measurement will be the shoulder/datum to the head (primer removed before measuring).
Once you have this measurement (write it down) you can adjust the Harrell die for the 0.001"-0.0015"-0.002" size you wish to use.
Oh, the three cases you send will be returned to you. Put them in a container (medicine bottle) and mark the bottle.
Keep them forever with the barrel you are using now. OK
New barrel, new reamer, new chamber, yes, probably new Harrell die with 3 cases fired 3x as stated above.

Also I am unsure of what measuring tools you have and therefore what you might need to purchase to measure accurately. I have an old but nice Peacock dial Caliper and a just as old and good Starrett 0.0001 micrometer. I hope this helps you in your new journey. It does thank you ! Go slow, be careful.
Now we are going to enjoy advanced reloading.
Good shooting,
Centerfire
 


The loaded round that came with the rifle seems to be neck turned for 2 different thickness:
The last section of the neck is thinner that the section closer to the shoulder.
The section near the mouth is on average 0.2607 thick, (around 0.168 long)
The one closer to the shoulder is 0.2628 thick . not the safest maybe….
 
Last edited:
"yes I will buy the outside neck turning attachment for my Forster case trimmer and turn the neck to be safe."

i hope someone will jump in with suggestions, but there are better choices.
 
I don't think the neck is turned to two different diameters.

It's common for button style sizing dies to leave a small part of the lower case neck unsized....in essence, the lower portion is what the chambers neck diameter measures.
 


you could be right !

( I thought I could see very weak tooling marks at the base of the neck, but it's not obvious....)


thanks
 
The upside to the lower case neck being unsized is that you now know what your chamber neck diameter is.....at least withing a few .0001's (ten thousandths).

The general feeling is that the unsized portion, since it's basically a 'gauge fit', helps align the bullet with the throat. -Al
 
Reply to your notes

herbeapuce said:
@ centerfire.
I already send the 3 brass to someone in Alberta. He is in the business and will get the brass to Harrell’s I’m also getting the Harrell arbor press, a shoulder gage, the .257 and .258 bushings and a good seating die….

Were the cases fired 3 times each?????? Try the Wilson seating die.
The Shoulder Gage (Gizzy) will come with the Harrell die. No need to buy another.

First, I did not notice the Manufacturer of the brass you are using. The rifle came with no history records, came with 50 loaded Norma handloaded round, unknown power and primer. I was also given 50 once fired Sako brass that I intend to use later
Second, I did not read how many times each piece of brass had been shot/fired/sized. I do not have this info, but they don’t show obvious signs of early retirement. I suspect the previous owner only neck sized those brass, as they are now getting long and the bolt is hard to close on them.

Before getting into the notes below it is imperative that you know the Chamber Neck Diameter.
Cerro Safe would be a good choice. It is written NCK 262 on the barrel. But I have cerrosafe and I will check soon.
This is good to know.

If not one can carefully expand the neck of the case and keep expanding till you FEEL the case neck coming in contact with the chamber, or it rubs off the Dykem or Prussian Blue you applied. This is available at any industrial supply house. I used to use candle smoke for this, now I use whiteboard marker black ink.
Please remove the firing pin from the bolt for all this type of feel stuff.

Third. Have you checked www.accurateshooter.com and gone to the 6PPC cartridge listed on the left side of the web site? Yes, there is a drawing there but it might not match your chamber.not yet. I will eventually read it I’m sure…

Fourth: I would purchase, Your choice,NEW Brass. I suggest Lapua .220 Russian. Yes I am aware of those being the best choice, but right now I will work with what I have, but yes those are the ones I will buy
Check the OAL length (write it down and save this information) did you mean shoulder to head?

No I meant OAL ( overall length of case) Head (no primer) to case mouth,

Take three .220R Lapua cases, load, and measure the loaded neck at the pressure ring of the neck after neck expanding to the 6mm size of you bullet. What bullet are you using? 68g Berger Match #24411. The gun also came with 2 brand new box of those bullets.
Very good bullet to stay with.

For instance if your loaded case measurement is .271" diameter and your chamber neck is less DO NOT PROCEED. The loaded round that came with the rifle seems to be neck turned for 2 different thickness:
The last section of the neck is thinner that the section closer to the shoulder.
The section near the mouth is on average 0.2607 thick, (around 0.168 long)
The one closer to the shoulder is 0.2628 thick . not the safest maybe….
You will have to get into neck turning before you proceed. (IE about 0.002" less than the chamber you are working with.) yes I will buy the outside neck turning attachment for my Forster case trimmer and turn the neck to be safe.

Remember that if you purchase the Forster outside neck turning attachment that when you put
the Pilot in the cutter shaft the set screw is going to offset the pilot and you will be turning an
ellipitical. Don't ask how I know this.

If your chamber neck is reamed 0.262" should be at least that.you will have to turn your necks about 0.0086" to arrive at a safe .2602" diameter. Or 0.0018" safe clearance.

The 3 New Lapua cases need to be reloaded correctly and fired 3x each total to be sent to Harrells.
Harrells will send you a die and a Gizzy but you will need a dial caliper to understand the measurement you receive.
This measurement will be the shoulder/datum to the head (primer removed before measuring).
Once you have this measurement (write it down) you can adjust the Harrell die for the 0.001"-0.0015"-0.002" size you wish to use.
Oh, the three cases you send will be returned to you. Put them in a container (medicine bottle) and mark the bottle.
Keep them forever with the barrel you are using now. OK
New barrel, new reamer, new chamber, yes, probably new Harrell die with 3 cases fired 3x as stated above.

Also I am unsure of what measuring tools you have and therefore what you might need to purchase to measure accurately. I have an old but nice Peacock dial Caliper and a just as old and good Starrett 0.0001 micrometer. I hope this helps you in your new journey. It does thank you ! Go slow, be careful.
Now we are going to enjoy advanced reloading.
Good shooting,
Centerfire
Click to expand...
Hope this helps.
 
Hi.

thanks for your help.

I am convinced the brass were fired at least 3 times each. maybe more.... but I have no die to set them back and fire them again 3 times. so it will be it....

what neck turning tool would you recommend ? ( hopefully it's not too expensive... :cool ? )

no need to buy another shoulder gauge , ok....

why is it good to know and write down the OAL of the brand new 220 Russian ?

thanks
stef
 
Reply

herbeapuce said:
Hi.

thanks for your help.

I am convinced the brass were fired at least 3 times each. maybe more.... but I have no die to set them back and fire them again 3 times. so it will be it....

what neck turning tool would you recommend ? ( hopefully it's not too expensive... :cool ? )

Something like the Sinclair. Of course their is the Pumpkin.

no need to buy another shoulder gauge , ok....

why is it good to know and write down the OAL of the brand new 220 Russian ?

Funny thing about acquiring knowledge.
Cheap, doesn't cost much.


thanks
stef
Click to expand...
Here you go.
 
that case is not turned into the shoulder enough to prevent a doughnut. There is a fine line between a doughnut and having the neck seperate from the case because it's to thin.

Richard
 
Richard said:
that case is not turned into the shoulder enough to prevent a doughnut. There is a fine line between a doughnut and having the neck seperate from the case because it's to thin.

Richard
Click to expand...

You have to go onto the shoulder with a cutter set to the correct angle to prevent the donut.

That is why cutters come in different angles to match case angles.
 
I never knew why folks turned cases into the shoulder to prevent a donut. I just turned the neck all the way to the bottom and let it go at that. I understand that the donut becomes a problem if it contacts the bullet but never had it happen if the necks were turned to the shoulder. What's the perceived problem if you have a donut below the bullet?
 
I'm getting a PMA cutter with a 30 degree angle fyi....I was told it will take care of donuts issues

not saying the case above has one.... just saying what's on my buying list

thanks
stef
 
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