6mm ai build

J

jaybic

New member
Hello folks,

Its been long time since I posted on here as I am more of a hunter that a competitive shooter but I know that the best in advice is found here in regards to accuracy....ect...ect....so here goes.

I am just beginning my new build project and am seeking advice and opinions on pretty much all things concerning it. I am on the fence between a Stiller Predator, a DGR from Shilen(I believe they are made by Mr. Stiller) and I was also thinking about an Alpine from Borden. It is to be chambered in 6mm A as a long range coyote rifle(600yds-ish) but I am still open to caliber selection at this point. It as a walking weight sporter type rifle and I do a lot of spot and stalk type stuff that allows me time to use my kestrel meter to get some wind idea(I know that's only where I am at but the coyotes refuse to sit still while I put out wind flags...j/k) and I do use the Brian Litz "Shooter" program to get my dope.

I am hoping to get some ideas on long action or short? twist, contours, bullet weights and ballistic performace..ect, fire forming brass..books I should read... Anything at all will help as I intend to order the action and barrel asap and due to what seem to be really looooong lead times, I know I need to get it all ordered so I have time for load development during the coming summerl. I have used Krieger and Douglas tubes before and would absolutely use them again but I am open to other ideas/suggestions based on availability and speed of delivery.

Any ideas on triggers, bottom metal, stocks and anything else I missed would help also. I am pretty much willing to ignore the bank account an get what I want and do it right the first time being that this is really my first complete custom rifle(not a trued 700 like my last one but a true custom).


What I hope to achieve in the end is an extremely accurate, flat shooting, flawlessly functioning sporter weight coyote hunting rifle, capable of taking coyotes as far as a 6mm bullet can effectively kill a 40lb coyote at. Be nice if it looked good too but that is secondary.

I know a lot of it is up to me and I am going to go to great lengths to improve my skills to match that of my rifle

Thanks for any advice/wisdom you may care to share and have a great day!

Jamie
 
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6 ai

Better off to use a long action. I have hunted coyotes for a long time. You did not say what part of the world you are hunting in nor the hunting conditions. You can usually coax them in to a shorter range, but you have to be cammo'd to the max. With all the coyote hunting that I have done in the S. West, we did not have time to pull out a wind meter nor even shoot the range with a range finder. In fact, your movement using the equipment will get you busted from way out there. They can spot sound to within 1 degree at 1000 yards.

We shot the 70g Ballistic tips at 4150 out of a 26" Shilen select match in a 1-14 twist, do the ballistics on that puppy. The vast majority of your shooting may be 450 and under, design your rifle for what ever will be your average shot, not the 3 out of a 100. Also, not all bullets will expand on coyotes...another issue. You can push the 75g V max at 3800 out of the 6 AI with a 26" barrel and rarely use your FL sizer. You will be able to push the 87g Hornady V Max and 88g Bergers at 3600-3700. 95g bullets will be on the edge of 3540 on a long barrel.

Another issue is to be able to hold on a coyote way out there, you are going to have to use shooting sticks or Bipod with no rear bag...that is a tough one.

I would encourage you to think in terms of coaxing in those super long range coyotes and shooting those long rangers as a matter of last resort. Lip squeeks, the little red bulb type of squeekers, and some of the old Johnny Stewart type of squeekers are fantastic on getting those long range coyotes in. If you are trolling in your pick up and spot those long range coyotes, you can use a window bag and use the steering wheel as a prop for your right elbow's support(use this method only where legal).


Good luck
 
Thanks Keith,

I am from SE MN but hunt frequently in western SD and ND and there is almost always wind to deal with. I do work to get in close and my favorite shot is about 75 yards facing me but often enough, they are just not biting and you end up with a hung up dog waaay out there and those shots are often the difference in who places and who doesn't. At the last tourney I was in, the director asked the winning teams and almost every one of them had a 4-600 yard kill that helped put them in the standings.

Around here, the longest range I have to shoot is 300 yards and then when I go out there, the local boys that spend all summer on a dog town in that wind leave us raggedy souls in the dirt when the ranges get long. I currently have a bipod and carry shooting sticks as well to every stand but sometimes when the wind comes up, spot and stalk coyotes are the ticket but you end up with lots of 400+ yd shots.

I had one coyote bedded up in a 25-35 mph wind at 410 yards by my rangefinder and I shot at him 3 times with my trued up 700 in .308 shooting 168smks and 44gr varget and he never moved a muscle. after a few minutes of me scratching my head and wondering wth happened, he got up, stretched, walked what seemed like 8 feet and freaked out because he finally smelled the spot where my bullet had drifted. I never thought it could be moved that far in the wind with a .308...!

I typically range a few spots when I sit down so I don't have to do it while a coyote is on the scene and that gives some predetermined ranges so that helps but even still, if I had nickel for every coyote that I have brought in to 4-600 yards and he sat for a bit and said "nah, I don't think so" I would have quite a few nickels so I decided to build a rifle that puts those coyotes in range as long as I rehearse my part.

I agree with gearing the rifle to the 97% of the shots I will take but the crux of it all is that its not the 100-300 yard shots that get me. My 22-250 does that plenty well. Its the 300-600 ones that do and those are the shots that separate the top 10 from the rest of the mere mortals like myself....lol.

Anyway, sorry to be long winded but I just hoped it might give you a better idea of what I am trying to do and why.

Thanks and take care,

Jamie
 
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How heavy of a rifle do you want? (total weight)

10.5 pounds?

Under 8 pounds?

Stocks, scopes and rings can add up fast.
 
Hello,

8lbs would be awesome but I could live with 10.5 I think...can I fella get a rifle that light that will still shoot like a house of fire? How much does a LV bench gun weigh anyway? I realize this will demonstrate my ignorance and for that I apologize but couldn't a fella take a good shooting 600 yard bench gun, turn the barrel down to take some weight off, lop the tube off at 24-26 inches, make it a repeater with Rem bottom metal and bolt it into a decent stock, put a couple sling swivel studs and a bipod on it and off I go?

I know some of you fellas are probably laughing yourselves blue and I am sure I have it coming but say that's what I was trying to do, what would/could I expect to end up with? I hope the answer is not "a Savage" because I already have one that shoots very well considering my skills but constantly has some sort of extraction/ejection or feeding issue and I am sick of trying to make factory junk work. I want the only malfunction my rifle has to be me....lol

Thanks again,

Jamie
 
Jamie, You could give Stan Ware a call he's in central Mn (about 1 1/2- 2hrs west of us and a bit north of 90), there's also a couple smiths in west/central Wisc. I'll look up their contact info an get it to you tomorrow (507) 437-8313 Roger T. BTW Ahlmans would not be on my list.
 
The easy answer is to let Jim Borden build the entire rifle.

Just tell him you want an eight pound coyote rifle including scope. Let him dictate what you need including what cartridge to chamber it and what brass, dies etc you need.

WARNING: Getting brass for this project may be difficult. When building a project like this it is wise to secure all the brass you will need, from the same lot.
 
jaybic said:
What I hope to achieve in the end is an extremely accurate, flat shooting, flawlessly functioning sporter weight coyote hunting rifle, capable of taking coyotes as far as a 6mm bullet can effectively kill a 40lb coyote at. Be nice if it looked good too but that is secondary.
Click to expand...

All of your questions re: stock, trigger, action, etc. have been asked/answered on various forums. Google search will yield hundreds of results too; start reading.

Sounds like you want a .243. Easy peasy.

As to the coyotes, you should leave them alone, and concentrate instead on eradicating Taliban.
 
Thanks for the insight fellas.

I have a call in to Mr. Borden but I have missed his return call twice now. And Bill, I spent 4 yrs in the USMC but that was pre-Taliban hunting season but I like your view of things. When does Taliban season open and is there a limit?

Jamie
 
6mm varmint

Jaybic -

Howdy !

The window shots idea is work able. I do recommend a wider-than customary.... flat-bottomed forend.

Scope-wise, use a great quality variable... one w/ good higher-end magnification. That way, you can scan for targets w/ the scope, and be ready to take the resulting shots.
You can always adjust the scope' power down, as ranges and conditions warrant.

Bullets -
Sounds like you want explosive terminal performance. Bullets like the Sierra 6mm 80gr " Blitz ", and their old-school 85HPBTs are both established varmint killers... providing
devastating terminal effects. And of course, Hornady's 87 "V"-Max.

I myself used Sierra 6mm 95 MKs and Berger 6mm 95 VLDs on groundhogs, w/ no known shoot-throughs @ any ranges tried. For that reason, I'm encouraged that they'd stay
in a coyote; when the animal is shot @ similar ranges.


With regards,
.357Mag
 
One thing I didn't see mentioned as I scanned this thread was anything about the magazine. I ran a 6mm Ack for years in a single shot. I rebarreled in 243 Ack because of quality brass. If you plan on a repeater go with a 243 Imp. and 80 ish Gr. bullets for the wind. I had a couple thousand Fowler 80's and have, at altitude, shot rock chucks out to 900 yds. with them. They are hell on foxes and coyotes up close.

I'm not taking on any more work but my walking around rig would be my action, made by Stiller, fluted Bartlein Rem VT contour, 1-12 twist, 24" threaded for a suppressor, 243 or 243 Imp.,Timney 510U trigger, McMillan Sako Varmint stock,Bushnell DMR 3.5-21 scope with the G2 reticle, detachable bottom metal. Not sure about state laws regarding riding around with a loaded rifle. A detachable mag comes in handy. The scope may push the weight slightly over 10.5 lbs but is the best buy out there. It's a first focal plane scope so you can use the reticle holdovers and windage marks at any power.
 
when choosing a twist, does faster twist equal slower velocities and vice versa? If a fella were to shoot the same 87gr vmax thru a 1:12 tube VS 1:10 (or anything else) will there be a difference and any idea how much?

Jamie
 
jaybic said:
when choosing a twist, does faster twist equal slower velocities and vice versa? If a fella were to shoot the same 87gr vmax thru a 1:12 tube VS 1:10 (or anything else) will there be a difference and any idea how much?

Jamie
Click to expand...


No.


just, NO


Anybody who tells you otherwise is guessing
 
Jamie, from a magazine length standpoint once you start getting above 85-88 gr bullets (12 twist upper range)and going to 90-100gr range (10 twist)the bullets are going to be seated deeper into the case to fit the max COAL for magazine feed. Nothing wrong with the 10 twist, just not needed with the 87-88 grainers and lighter.
 
I have been looking at the Bushnell scope suggested earlier in this thread and have a question. Is the G2 a mil or moa? I don't really know much about the mil system but I am sure I can learn but I know I would prefer an MOA reticle.

Does anyone have any experience with the 3.5x21 DMR scope in terms of repeatability and that sort of thing. If Mr. Tooley suggests it I have no doubt that it is a quality item because he could have suggested anything but I just didn't see that one coming and don't know much about them for a dedicated long(er) range coyote hunting scope.

I have also never used or owned a FFP scope so I am kinda in the dark as to the pros and cons as opposed to a 2nd FP unit like my VX 3s.

Thanks for the insight and have a great day,

Jamie
 
I guess I am also in need of die advice. I was told that we would be chambering to SAAMI specs and Mr. Kobe suggested Redding dies but I have no idea about bushings or Type S dies or that sort of thing. All I know is that he suggested that I will need a FL die and also a neck sizer and I like the micrometer seater type dies so any input would be very much appreciated.

Thanks and have a great day,

Jamie
 
Jamie, Look at the Redding Competition and Match sets of dies (Redding web site) and see if one or the other will meet your needs. Bushings, Ask Kobe what he recommends for the neck size he's using.
 
Jamie, Type S dies are Reddings "Bushing" series, 2000 are the NON bushing series. For instance...Type S Match Full length die set includes a type S (bushing) full length sizer and a Competition (micrometer) seater. The "Competition" means that you get either or BOTH (depending on which set you get) sizer/seater with the micrometer adjustable stems. Now depending on how much you NEED all that adjustability is your call (I have never used their Comp sizer but I do use their Comp shell holders). I have the Comp seaters as well as "Inline (Sinclaire etc.)for a few of my different cartridges. I'm sure someone will chime in with a MORE EXPERIANCED POV than mine (wouldn't take much). One more thing though IF the sizer is matched to the reamer and brass I really don't see a need for a neck size die because the full length S series bushing sizes the necks to suit you (with the appropriate bushing size). OK guys tell me how messed up I am, the Nomex is on....
 
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