6BR For BR

M

mothball10x

Guest
I have been thinking about having a BR gun made up for short range ,100 yrd. shooting.
Most 6BRs are built for long range shooting with very fast twist to shoot the heavy bullets.
I only shoot 100 to 200 yards from a bench and am thinking about a 6BR with a 12 or 13 twist. Has anyone ever had or know anyone that has had a gun built up for short range shooting with the 6BR and how do they shoot compaired to the 6PPC ?
 
The Standard for short range bullets in 6mm is 65 to 68 gr bullets spinning with right around a 14 twist. Some go to 15, some use 14 1/4 or so, but the norm is 14. You didn't mention Group or Score. Most group shooters are using 6PPC or a variant of, and for Score the .30 BR is King. The 6mmBR seems to be a hair too much cartridge for short range group shooting.
 
Thanks pbike,I only do Group shooting,and was thinking about something different that the 6PPC. I have to do things to keep from going stir crazy,its to snowy and cold to get to the range !
 
The Talldog is a shortened 6BR and has been used by shooters like Mark Buettgen and Fred Hasecuster. Fred used his to shoot his way into the HOF. Of course the PPC fell on hard times because of a shortage of brass some years ago, and many turned to the BR case. The Br case is capable, but the PPC is better. Good shooting....James
 
I appreciate the returns, I do have a cooper in 6BR ,which has shot some very good groups, but it is 1-14 twist and just like when I received it from Cooper.
I was thinking ,If one was built with a BR action,a BR barrel and stock and a good trigger,if it is capable to shoot with the PPC.
Thanks,.............Tom
 
Someone once told me that the original incarnation of the 6BR was as accurate as the 6PPC, or even better at longer ranges, but that the case forming process was more difficult, having to be made from a .308 win rather than a .220 Russian, hence the 6PPC became more popular. When I thought I would never be able to get out on a shooting range again, I gave my 6PPC to my son. When through the miracle of modern surgery and sheer cussedness, according to some, I found I could still get out from time to time, I was without a bench rifle. So, I decided to build a 6BR (this was my second try at building my own) to see if what I had heard long ago was true.

Since the only range I can drive to and not set the doctors to tsking at me is a 200 yard range I oprted for a 1/14" Shilen SM. I have been shooting that 6BR for some years now, and have managed to beat my old personal best with the 6PPC by a couple 1/10 inches. I have always had the distinct impression that it matters less which particular cartridge one shoots (assuming it is appropriate for the application) than it does what talent and dedication to learning the skills required that makes for anyone's results. I've had much more time to practice in the last few years.............
 
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amamnn

The original 6BR was the BR REM and was made using a basic case from Remington. They chambered 40X rifles for the cartridge. The basic case had the dimensions of a 308W but was specially annealed, had thinner walls, and a small primer pocket. Remington thought that benchrest shooters would prefer to make their own cases, an assumption that may or may not have been true, mostly not. The basic case was also made with a 22 BR REM headstamp to be made into a 22 caliber version. Once shooters discovered the 220 Russian and 6PPC Sako brass they went that way. By the time Remington realized their error it was too late. They began making 6mmBR REM cases but even they were ignored by shooters in favor of the LAPUA BR REM and later the LAPUA BR NORMA. Many will still argue which cartridge (6mm BR or 6PPC) is more accurate but most will agree that it's the PPC. If the BR case is shortened to equal the PPC capacity it is probably a toss up.

All this is history and water under the bridge now.

Ray
 
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We're on the fringe here, but Ferris Pindell made some 100+ grain 6mm bullets with a closed-up meplat, and felt they would have an advantage at 200 yards in point-blank benchrest. And the 200 yard winner usually wins the whole shebang. To shoot these heavier bullets, Pindell advocated the 6BR.

Well, unproven in the heat of competition, but you can make the case. I have had some 100+ grain 6mm bullets for my 1K rifles, and have shot successive 5-shot groups agging at a flat .200 at 100 yards. Seventeen-pound rifle, so not legal for short-range matches.

For lighter bullets, the PPC usually (always?) seems to come out on top. This may be as simple as better powder choices for a full case and 65,000+ psi pressures.

Yes, shooting small groups simply a matter of shooting better, so one can shoot their personal best with either caliber. But at a match, more than one person is "on." Whether or not the 6BR can hold it's own with the PPC against the field is still unknown, too few have been campaigned. I remember being derided for holding that the .30 BR could hold its own in group shoots back in the late 1990s. They're not laughing so much now.

We can say this: the 6BR certainly isn't the sensible choice.
 
Back when I first started shooting BR, I had both a 6BR and a 6PPC. At that time we were shooting 200 yards for score. The 6PPC brass was the Sako USA stuff, and the 6BR was Remington. With the softer brass, the 6PPC was used to push 65-68gr bullets in the 3200 fps range, while a case full of W748 in the 6BR was good for 3500 fps range. Since this was a 200 yard match only, the 6BR had a slight advantage in wind bucking ability.

However, this means nothing now. With the introduction of Lapua brass for the 6PPC, velocities average 200 fps faster than before. Well some might say that the same Lapua brass is offered for the 6BR, and that's true, but if you push the full length 6BR to the same pressure levels as the PPC, barrel life would really start to suffer, and the PPC already suffers in that area a lot compared to the 30BR. You can shorten the 6BR to the same capacity as the 6PPC and performance is very similar, but more case forming means more work and more case problems. Until a better 6mm case for short range BR comes along. The 6PPC will continue to be the ultimate short range 6mm benchrest cartridge. However, if you like to be different (something that I understand well) a .100" short 6BR will compete just fine against the 6PPC.

Michael
 
Mothball
I for one don't think there is that much difference in the BR and PPC as far as accuracy goes. As long as things are within reason the quality of the bullet and barrel account for most of it. I have been at matches won by guys using 6BR several times.
A far as twist goes 14 twist is most popular but in the last 2 years several top shooters have gone to a 13.75 and 13.5 twist to help stabilize the double ogive 68 grain bullets and done very well.
I will also say that the I don't believe that there is some magic case to barrel volume ratio or cartridge dimension that works better than others. I think the 30 BR which has a different volume ratio than the 6 PPC has shown that. As long as things are within reason the 6BR in my estimation would do ABOUT as well as the PPC. I shoot a 25 caliber in BenchRest score and Group and it shoots as well FOR ME as the PPC did, maybe even a little better I don't think it is really better than the PPC but I don't think it is any worse. With the success of calibers other than the 6PPC showing up in the results lately I just find myself loosing confidence in the MAGIC case theory.
IF you want a 6 BR then build one. As long as the components are equal I don't think you will see much difference on the target.
But it does have more recoil so you might see some difference at the Bag and that does affect some peoples shooting.
 
TedH, as you probably know ,good bullets for the 25 caliper are few and far between. I have shot very good groups with the Sierra 90 gr. HPBT and also their 75 gr. HP and 100 gr. spitzer. Berger makes a very good bullet for this caliper also.
No luck with Speer or Remington.
 
I am a BR newbie and don't know much history further back than a few years. Has anyone matched the case capacity of the 6BR with a larger bullet (75-90 grs) in order to try for better wind resistance? I know Randy makes the 95 FB BIB. They shoot very will out for my 1:10 6BR and at really good speeds. All my work with them has been at 300-500 yds. Never shot a 100 yd group with them. I would think a 75-85 gr bullet with a 0.35-0.40 BC would be where the 6BR would shine in point blank BR. Does anyone make a BR grade custom bullet? Yes - I know of the Bergers and had good luck with the 88 Bergers but I had to sort them. I don't think Berger still makes them anyway. History lesson needed, Tim
 
Tiny68
My 6BR has a 1-14 twist, so I only shoot bullets in the 65 to 70 gr. range. I only shoot the 100yd. distance and it shoots very good groups with Varget and N135.
Groups in the 2's and sometime 1's are not uncommon with this load. How does your 6BR shoot at your yardage with that 1-10 twist ? I was thinking of having another gun chambered in 6BR with the 1-10 twist so I could shoot the heavier bullets.

Tom
 
Well

I'm not going to sugar coat it. If you ever decide to shoot in any type of Group Competition, with a 6BR, you are leaving too much on the table trying to go heads up with a 6PPC.

But don't let my opinion discourage you. Go on ahead and invest all of the time, effort, and cash into a 6BR and see for yourself.........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
I'm not going to sugar coat it. If you ever decide to shoot in any type of Group Competition, with a 6BR, you are leaving too much on the table trying to go heads up with a 6PPC.

But don't let my opinion discourage you. Go on ahead and invest all of the time, effort, and cash into a 6BR and see for yourself.........jackie
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When I first got into this idiotic game, I had already spent a considerable sum of money on a Savage action based BR rifle. BR stock, Br trigger, etc, etc. I had a well know barrel makers select match barrel in 12 twist. Found that it liked about 31+ grains of Varget or was it 135, can't remember and a Berger 80 grain bullet. This was a 27 inch straight no taper barrel. It shot good, but not good enough to compete. Now the good part. I contacted one of the better known BR rifle builders in the country. Told him what I wanted, in a 6BR. Now here is what he told me. I will build what you want but you are giving up at least .050" in agging ability when using the 6BR over the 6ppc. Since I was new to the game I took his advice and bought a used 6ppc on a Viper action and haven't looked back. I think the man knew what he was talking about. I am now beginning to think that the 6ppc is just a tad over size on case capacity. I base this on the success of the 30BR. Maybe shorten the 6ppc case about .050 to .080 and leave the neck long. Now that just might be the ticket. But it takes $$$$$$$ to find out. Just thinking you know and using H4198.

Donald
 
Octopus said:
TedH

What bullets are you using with your 25?

Octopus
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I am using the BIB 88 Grain, Flat Base and Boat Tail.
I feel that either of these bullets will outclass the SIerra and the Berger.
At 100 yards the BIB 88 FB and BT bullets shoot equall, but in the windy, switchy conditions we experience here in Central Texas the Boat Tail forgives me by about .15" -.20" at 200 yards when I miss a switch.
Without a doubt the BIB 25 Calibre bullets are just a good as his 30 calibre bullets.

I don't recoment for new shooter to use 25 calibre. However if there is a person that has only 1 gun and wants to shoot a LV free recoil in both group and score then it might be a nice compromise.
Ted
 
I too have had good experience with the 25 BIB flat base. I will try the Boattails.

Mostly I use the 25 BR. I have one new barrel chambered similar to 25-08. I ran the reamer in deeper and make the cases out of 243 and 308 cases. The 25-08 seems to like most loads and shoots close to the same point of aim with most bullets. I made this barrel up for shooting at longer ranges.
 
If you email Randy you can probably order some of the BT bullet the next time he does a batch.
 
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