6.5mm Grendel – Neck Me Up, Neck Me Down

[Wilbur]

It's somewhat the chamber that wins, but that ain't the entire story. What if you put together a rifle that wouldn't shoot? What if you put together a rifle that would shoot? The answers can go either way regardless of the chamber... Who's building a 30-30?

 

[CMaier]

you mean who else is building another 30-30.....
since mike build and won with one.

It's somewhat the chamber that wins, but that ain't the entire story. What if you put together a rifle that wouldn't shoot? What if you put together a rifle that would shoot? The answers can go either way regardless of the chamber... Who's building a 30-30?

 

[SmallBoreBuyer]

Anytime you are looking at a different way to achieve a specific goal, the first question should be,...."To what ends"?

Most people that know me are aware that in the realm of Short Range Benchrest, I have tried a lot of things in the past two decades in an attempt to find an advantage, or simply just to satisfy my own curiosity.

And, after all of that, I am still shooting a 6PPC in Group, and a 30BR in Score.

The reason is simple, I like being competitive. I am, though, going to start seriously considering a HV in 6BR 1-8 twist combination for 200-300 yard score. I just put one together to shoot the two 300 yard Matches at Walker County, and initial test show that is is precision enough combined with a substantial BC advantage to be worthwhile lugging an entire different combination to matches.

Jackie - have you tried the 6.5mm Grendel with bullets in the 76 to 82 grain range (I believe this would be the sweet spot for this caliber for short range).

 

[CMaier]

YOU ARE STILL MISSING THE POINT WITH ANY 6.5.

THERE ARE NO BR QUALITY BULLETS FOR SHORT RANGE.

you need to decide if you are a tinkerer or a competitor.
you can tinker with 6.5, you cannot COMPETE.
showing up with a rifle is PARTICIPATION.
showing up with a competitive rifle is competition.

Jackie - have you tried the 6.5mm Grendel with bullets in the 76 to 82 grain range (I believe this would be the sweet spot for this caliber for short range).

 

[SmallBoreBuyer]

YOU ARE STILL MISSING THE POINT WITH ANY 6.5.

THERE ARE NO BR QUALITY BULLETS FOR SHORT RANGE.

you need to decide if you are a tinkerer or a competitor.
you can tinker with 6.5, you cannot COMPETE.
showing up with a rifle is PARTICIPATION.
showing up with a competitive rifle is competition.

THANK YOU FOR YELLING!

YOUR COMMAND OF THE OBVIOUS IS CLEAR - CAPITALIZATION IS NOT A NECESSARY ENHANCEMENT.

IF YOU RE-READ THE INITIAL POST YOU WILL SEE THAT I REFERENCED THIS AVAILALIBILITY ISSUE RIGHT AT THE START.

In the past, however, it appears that some lighter 6.5mm bullets were available. It seems that Bob Cauterucio made bullets in the low 80 grain range. I have read old references to 80 grain bullets. Some shooters have swaged their own bullets, have they not? If no one has carefully tested this weight range of bullets, then their potential is still an open question, lack of commercial availability notwithstanding.

Why does someone asking questions anger you so?

 

[Jim Pag]

THANK YOU FOR YELLING!

YOUR COMMAND OF THE OBVIOUS IS CLEAR - CAPITALIZATION IS NOT A NECESSARY ENHANCEMENT.

IF YOU RE-READ THE INITIAL POST YOU WILL SEE THAT I REFERENCED THIS AVAILALIBILITY ISSUE RIGHT AT THE START.

In the past, however, it appears that some lighter 6.5mm bullets were available. It seems that Bob Cauterucio made bullets in the low 80 grain range. I have read old references to 80 grain bullets. Some shooters have swaged their own bullets, have they not?

Why does someone asking questions anger you so?

Just ignore him. He's like that with everyone. I know I get bad at times, but he is ALWAYS arguing with people in every thread that he put's his 2 cents in which is just about every thread there is. He's like the old Shell answer man. He knows anything and everything about all aspects of anything firearms related. Just ask and you shall receive an answer to any question that you want an answer to. He will give it.

 

[MRL]

I don't always agree with everybody on this board, but they are right. You need to decide if you want to be a competitor or just shoot to participate. Also if you think this would be a world beater go for it, show everybody how its done.

 

[jim1K]

Anytime you are looking at a different way to achieve a specific goal, the first question should be,...."To what ends"?

Most people that know me are aware that in the realm of Short Range Benchrest, I have tried a lot of things in the past two decades in an attempt to find an advantage, or simply just to satisfy my own curiosity.

And, after all of that, I am still shooting a 6PPC in Group, and a 30BR in Score.

The reason is simple, I like being competitive. I am, though, going to start seriously considering a HV in 6BR 1-8 twist combination for 200-300 yard score. I just put one together to shoot the two 300 yard Matches at Walker County, and initial test show that is is precision enough combined with a substantial BC advantage to be worthwhile lugging an entire different combination to matches.

Jackie, i have been beating that drums for a long time. With Barts 103 @ 2974 has always shot in the zero's @ 100 is capable of shooting inside of a 1.5" 10 ring at 300 yds. I know you are on the right track. ...... jim

 

[mwezell]

THANK YOU FOR YELLING!

YOUR COMMAND OF THE OBVIOUS IS CLEAR - CAPITALIZATION IS NOT A NECESSARY ENHANCEMENT.

IF YOU RE-READ THE INITIAL POST YOU WILL SEE THAT I REFERENCED THIS AVAILALIBILITY ISSUE RIGHT AT THE START.

In the past, however, it appears that some lighter 6.5mm bullets were available. It seems that Bob Cauterucio made bullets in the low 80 grain range. I have read old references to 80 grain bullets. Some shooters have swaged their own bullets, have they not? If no one has carefully tested this weight range of bullets, then their potential is still an open question, lack of commercial availability notwithstanding.

Why does someone asking questions anger you so?

Neck it up, neck it down, or find/make good bullets for the 6.5. The real basis' for any good rifle are good brass, good barrels and good bullets. The rest is easy.

If you're set on a 6.5, there was a guy in Ohio, a few years back, that did a fair amount of testing and shooting with light weight 6.5 bullets that he made, but I don't recall his name..I'm sorry.

Regardless, the Grendel case is very good and has great accuracy potential, IME. It just may be an easier path in a cal that offers good bullets already.

 

[jim1K]

Wind drift on a full value 10 mph wind @ 300 yds. with a 30 115 is 9.4" at 3000 fps velocity and a 103 - 5 class 6mm bullet at 2974 wind drift is 4.8". if the wind blows, what one stands a better chance? jim

 

[jackie schmidt]

Jackie, i have been beating that drums for a long time. With Barts 103 @ 2974 has always shot in the zero's @ 100 is capable of shooting inside of a 1.5" 10 ring at 300 yds. I know you are on the right track. ...... jim

I am looking for nice round "threes" at 200, with a load that doesn't do anything dumb, like toss shots against a condition. This medium Varget load, around 2850 fps with the 108 Berger Match, seems to fit the bill.

If you look at those groups, the two on the left were shot in a mild quartering right to left, the one on the left a mild quartering left to right. The group moved exactly where it should have on the target.

That is what I am looking for.

 

[Greyfox]

Wind drift on a full value 10 mph wind @ 300 yds. with a 30 115 is 9.4" at 3000 fps velocity and a 103 - 5 class 6mm bullet at 2974 wind drift is 4.8". if the wind blows, what one stands a better chance? jim

The one that stands a better chance is the one that understands how to read the wind.

Rick

 

[Jim Pag]

The one that stands a better chance is the one that understands how to read the wind.

Rick

Exactly. I was going to chamber a SR 6 Dasher to shoot 2 & 300, but after talking to Randy R., I scrapped that idea and am better off just using my 30x46. It worked well for me for the most part last season.

 

[CMaier]

jim p about jim1k numbers:
are you saying because you "know"
what your 30 is doing it is better to continue,
than to try to learn a new round, even tho it has half the drift ?

 

[jim1K]

If you guys ever shot 1000 you learn to read the wind and we can't go back to the sighter nor do we have a field full of flags. We shoot conditions and can shoot in two or three inches. So at 300yd. score with a 1.5 ten ring is very doable with something that has half the wind drift. The imp. has shot in the high .1's at 300 so it will shoot x's.........

Jackie, You are on a roll and you are 100% right......... if the wind picks up, drag it out...... lol...... jim

 

[Jim Pag]

If you guys ever shot 1000 you learn to read the wind and we can't go back to the sighter nor do we have a field full of flags. We shoot conditions and can shoot in two or three inches. So at 300yd. score with a 1.5 ten ring is very doable with something that has half the wind drift. The imp. has shot in the high .1's at 300 so it will shoot x's.........

Jackie, You are on a roll and you are 100% right......... if the wind picks up, drag it out...... lol...... jim

Anything is doable. In your vast experience at SR score, how many people are using any form of a 6 or say 2 or 300? Like I said I talked to Robinette about it and he talked me right out of it about using a 6 Dasher at SR score. I know a dozen people who have tried some form of 6 at SR and everyone has gone back to their 30. That tells me something. If you want to experiment, that's great. If it works for you even better, but right now, some form of a 30 still dominates.

 

[Greyfox]

Anything is doable. In your vast experience at SR score, how many people are using any form of a 6 or say 2 or 300? Like I said I talked to Robinette about it and he talked me right out of it about using a 6 Dasher at SR score. I know a dozen people who have tried some form of 6 at SR and everyone has gone back to their 30. That tells me something. If you want to experiment, that's great. If it works for you even better, but right now, some form of a 30 still dominates.

Jim,
The reason to 30 is so universally popular in IBS/NBRSA score matches is the size of the hole. Understand I'm not making the suggestion or arguing for caliber neutral targets in these organizations as it's not going to happen. But since we started UBR and are using caliber neutral targets the vast majority of shooters have migrated to the 6's. The obvious reason is the size of the hole. You can't give up anything in this game and to give up .065 on every shot is a deal breaker. Have 6s occasionally won in IBS/NBRSA matches? Sure. But not often. Size matters and that is the reason, not that the 30 is better, just bigger.

Rick

 

[Jim Pag]

Jim,
The reason to 30 is so universally popular in IBS/NBRSA score matches is the size of the hole. Understand I'm not making the suggestion or arguing for caliber neutral targets in these organizations as it's not going to happen. But since we started UBR and are using caliber neutral targets the vast majority of shooters have migrated to the 6's. The obvious reason is the size of the hole. You can't give up anything in this game and to give up .065 on every shot is a deal breaker. Have 6s occasionally won in IBS/NBRSA matches? Sure. But not often. Size matters and that is the reason, not that the 30 is better, just bigger.

Rick

I'll agree with you 100% Rick. Until the IBS/NBRSA changes to caliber specific targets, the 30 will dominate, but you know as well as I do you'd have a better chance of doing Pam Anderson than those 2 organizations changing targets.

 

[CMaier]

gee and i thought both organizations were about
"ultimate rifle accuracy"
not about alternative targets to keep winning
with a 6 ppc.

 

[Jim Pag]

gee and i thought both organizations were about
"ultimate rifle accuracy"
not about alternative targets to keep winning
with a 6 ppc.

Well it just evens up the competition if somebody doesn't like shooting a 30. Doesn't that make any sense at all? Why handicap someone a little over 30% from the start because he wants to shoot a 6 or even a 22 caliber cartridge. And they wonder why participation has been declining year after year with antiquated thinking like that. That's not the way to attract more people in the sport. Lets face facts. This game that we play is geared for older people. A young guy with kids and all sorts of bills isn't going to have the time or money to shoot and travel every weekend to shoot. This game as you know is expensive. A lot of guys that I shoot with are in their mid sixties to mid seventies. Most are on a fixed budget. They can't afford to travel very far. How can we attract more people?, I have no clue. They hired Josh Strum as executive VP for the IBS to help grow the number of people shooting in the IBS and I hope he succeeds, but IMO all he did was jump on a sinking ship.