6.5mm Grendel – Neck Me Up, Neck Me Down

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SmallBoreBuyer

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The 6.5mm Grendel is close to the 6mm PPC in case capacity.

The 6mm Grinch (6.5mm necked-down, blown out to 40°) has had some recent successes, with Greg King winning the 2 Gun in St. Louis in November and two other Grinches in the top 10.

The current record 100 yard group of 0.0077” was set with a 6.5mm Grendel necked up to 30 caliber (.30 Stewart).

If it is effective both bigger and smaller, is the 6.5 Grendel a viable BR cartridge? It probably needs a wider range of bullet availability first, but it is intriguing.
 
the 30 stewart was shooting the same family of bullets
lots of people shoot.
the 6 grinch i do not know but it is probably in the
family if case capacity is close.

can a 6.5 win..maybe but you need some serious bullets,
and probably someone other than a beginer behind
the trigger.

SmallBoreBuyer said:
The 6.5mm Grendel is close to the 6mm PPC in case capacity.

The 6mm Grinch (6.5mm necked-down, blown out to 40°) has had some recent successes, with Greg King winning the 2 Gun in St. Louis in November and two other Grinches in the top 10.

The current record 100 yard group of 0.0077” was set with a 6.5mm Grendel necked up to 30 caliber (.30 Stewart).

If it is effective both bigger and smaller, is the 6.5 Grendel a viable BR cartridge? It probably needs a wider range of bullet availability first, but it is intriguing.
Click to expand...
 
stick with proven parts and pcs.
build a 6ppc for 100/200 group
build a 30 br for score
i do not own a 6ppc, i do not shoot group at
100/200. but i have been around here long enough
to know what you will be told.
( i do own a 6 beggs 220 rus necked up to 6
with a diff neck to shoulder radius than the russian case).

SmallBoreBuyer said:
What cartridge would you say would allow a begginer to win with? :confused::D
Click to expand...
 
CMaier said:
stick with proven parts and pcs.
build a 6ppc for 100/200 group
build a 30 br for score
i do not own a 6ppc, i do not shoot group at
100/200. but i have been around here long enough
to know what you will be told.
( i do own a 6 beggs 220 rus necked up to 6
with a diff neck to shoulder radius than the russian case).
Click to expand...

I agree that the proven path makes sense, but off-beat oft appeals (to me). One could make the argument that a beginner might be better off choosing a different path, as following dozens of seasoned pros with the same gear and beating them is hard. In sailing one might "take a flyer", if behind, to try to catch different air and get an advantage. Sort of a Hail Mary move, however.

The 220 Beggs is another cartridge that appeals - realizing it is at a disadvantage to the 6mm PPC-class cartridges past 100 yards - so hassle-free to use.
 
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I think you are somewhat confused about what you're asking. Any rifle can win a Benchrest match. Thing is, "any rifle" ends right there with that statement. Don't waste you time and money right now on anything but a 6PPC and make a reasonable attempt to build or buy one that is competitive. There's hundreds of 6PPCs that are incapable of winning a local match much less something like the nationals. What I'm trying to tell you is the caliber is not THE choice but a 6PPC is the best choice. Once you find out what I'm saying here is the truth, you can build whatever you want to build but start out with a 6PPC. The guys that are winning are not better than you...but they do have a winning rifle....and a winning rifle is not easy to come by.
 
Wilbur said:
I think you are somewhat confused about what you're asking. Any rifle can win a Benchrest match. Thing is, "any rifle" ends right there with that statement. Don't waste you time and money right now on anything but a 6PPC and make a reasonable attempt to build or buy one that is competitive. There's hundreds of 6PPCs that are incapable of winning a local match much less something like the nationals. What I'm trying to tell you is the caliber is not THE choice but a 6PPC is the best choice. Once you find out what I'm saying here is the truth, you can build whatever you want to build but start out with a 6PPC. The guys that are winning are not better than you...but they do have a winning rifle....and a winning rifle is not easy to come by.
Click to expand...

No confusion here. I didn't ask if the 6.5mm Grendel was a good build candidate to beat 6mm PPC - the answer to that question is rather automatic here.

I was curious as to peoples' reactions to a thought experiment. If parent cartridge A broke a long-standing record when necked up and is doing well necked down, couldn't it be interesting in it's "native" state? (Realizing that the "parent" has been derived and is a bit arbitrary). I was hoping to stimulate discussion outside the standard programmatic flow chart where the answer boxes are, depending on distance and score versus group, 6mm PPC, a bigger 6mm cartridge, a 30 cal variant.
 
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CMaier said:
but "parent cartridge a" really isn't the parent.
Click to expand...
I suppose it depends on how one defines "parent".

I wrote '(Realizing that the "parent" has been derived and is a bit arbitrary)'. In the cases here, the 6.5mm Grendel IS the parent, though not the original cartridge. The cases in question were formed from the 6.5mm Grendel case, not a prior generation from which the 6.5mm Grendel was also derived. 

Not sure what the point of the nitpicking is...
 
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go look at the comp forum, where i had asked about 6.5 in br.
bottom line not good bullets for score.
 
I've seen this for years now....People in our sport seemingly believe that using anything other than a ppc in group and a 30br in score as being anything but advantageous, even to the point where some even appear to take it personally if someone claims that there may be something as good or better than the status quo.

Perhaps there is and never will be, anything better than what most currently shoot, but at the very least, to proclaim that to be so simply because it's what everyone else shoots, seems counter to any competitive sport I've ever been involved with.

It's not even debatable that the ppc and br
are great cartridges...without a doubt, this is true. But, to remain closed minded to the possibility that there just may be room to improve on them does not fit well with my idea of what our competitive are a represents. To me, competition drives me to experiment, test and search for any edge that is within the rules.

Just like with my 30 Major, based on the Grendel case, I also believe that the 6 Grendel has a lot of potential and benefits vs a standard 6ppc. The two cases are too similar and the Grendel falls right between the ppc and br cases...I just can't imagine it being bad. Even if it only equals a ppc, it still has the advantage of not needing to be formed from another case.

To each their own, but I'm not a bit scared to experiment with it and if 99.5% of shooters used it, I have no doubt at all that it would dominate all others....just as the ppc has for 40 plus years. Think about that....40 plus years of using the same cartridge in a competitive arena, yet many if not most, claim it superior, but most only base that on numbers relative to virtually everyone using it rather than experimentation.

I agreen that bullets supply stymies progress with the 6.5 call in short range. ---Mike
 
mwezell said:
I've seen this for years now....People in our sport seemingly believe that using anything other than a ppc in group and a 30br in score as being anything but advantageous, even to the point where some even appear to take it personally if someone claims that there may be something as good or better than the status quo.

Perhaps there is and never will be, anything better than what most currently shoot, but at the very least, to proclaim that to be so simply because it's what everyone else shoots, seems counter to any competitive sport I've ever been involved with.

It's not even debatable that the ppc and br
are great cartridges...without a doubt, this is true. But, to remain closed minded to the possibility that there just may be room to improve on them does not fit well with my idea of what our competitive are a represents. To me, competition drives me to experiment, test and search for any edge that is within the rules.

Just like with my 30 Major, based on the Grendel case, I also believe that the 6 Grendel has a lot of potential and benefits vs a standard 6ppc. The two cases are too similar and the Grendel falls right between the ppc and br cases...I just can't imagine it being bad. Even if it only equals a ppc, it still has the advantage of not needing to be formed from another case.

To each their own, but I'm not a bit scared to experiment with it and if 99.5% of shooters used it, I have no doubt at all that it would dominate all others....just as the ppc has for 40 plus years. Think about that....40 plus years of using the same cartridge in a competitive arena, yet many if not most, claim it superior, but most only base that on numbers relative to virtually everyone using it rather than experimentation.

I agreen that bullets supply stymies progress with the 6.5 call in short range. ---Mike
Click to expand...

FWIW- I'm pretty much in agreement with everything Mike says here. There is no doubt in my mind that the 30BR is equal to the 6PPC in accuracy. Also, my time spent with the 6 Beggs and the 220 Beggs tell me they will also do the job. Like Mike, I tend to want to try new things and I think that if more folks shot these chamberings they would find good success. To me it has as much to do with barrels and bullets as anything. That being said, when new shooters ask me what they should buy or build I always recommend a 6PPC. I think it's best that a new competitor starts with a proven round that has plenty of data available and that will definitely win. Once a certain confidence level is gained, then they can move on to something else. A new shooters starting with an unproven round is a train wreck waiting to happen IMO.

YMMV,
Rick
 
SmallBoreBuyer said:
The 6.5mm Grendel is close to the 6mm PPC in case capacity.

The 6mm Grinch (6.5mm necked-down, blown out to 40°) has had some recent successes, with Greg King winning the 2 Gun in St. Louis in November and two other Grinches in the top 10.

The current record 100 yard group of 0.0077” was set with a 6.5mm Grendel necked up to 30 caliber (.30 Stewart).

If it is effective both bigger and smaller, is the 6.5 Grendel a viable BR cartridge? It probably needs a wider range of bullet availability first, but it is intriguing.
Click to expand...

You answered your own question, without custom 6.5 bullets it's a dead issue. I am like Mike Ezell. I like to tinker with different cartridges. I shoot score, but I am not the type of person to shoot one caliber. Most of the guy's I shoot against shoot a 30BR. They are ok, and I have quite a bench rifles that I have multiple switch barrel calibers including the 30BR, but I also have 5 other 30 caliber variants, and 3 different 6MM cartridges that I will be shooting only because I like to experiment. I've been shooting a 30 Gorilla (Gunsmith Larry Feusse's pet project) at 100 yards for 2 seasons now and out of 13 total shoots that I have shot with it, I've placed 1st twice, 2nd twice and 3rd, 4th, and 5th one times each. That's fair but I'm just a mediocre shooter. I'm sure in the hands of a more capable shooter it would do better. But to me half the fun of shooting is experimenting. I have more fun trying to make something different work. If it gets to the point where it's not, then I will realize it's time to move onto something else instead of beating a dead horse. There are all sorts of attitudes when it comes to shooting competition. You have guy's like me that like to tinker and if you manage to pull a win off with something different, fine, if you don't well back to the drawing board. Then there are the guy's that are way serious about winning and they put on their game face and don't want to talk to anybody and be by themselves and stay focused and that's ok too. Those are the guy's who usually do very well. Me, I don't go to the match to lose, but if I get used at that match, I always say there is next week to look forward to. Too me this is just a game I play most weekends. Winning a $2.00 piece of wood doesn't mean squat to me. All my plaques are in cardboard boxes. I don't have any displayed anywhere in my house. I have spent over 150K since 2013 to play this game. I always go overboard in everything that I do. That's just me. I'm sure that within the next 2 years I'm going to get really sick of it and move onto something else like I usually do. Loosing my dad 3 weeks ago made me really think about what is important in life and what isn't.
 
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Experimenting is in some people's blood its what drives them. I have become more of an experimenter out of necessity since I've started making long range bullets. While experimenting is fun, it's also expensive, By the time you buy barrels, brass, dies, reamers, and different powders!

Bart
 
Bart said:
Experimenting is in some people's blood its what drives them. I have become more of an experimenter out of necessity since I've started making long range bullets. While experimenting is fun, it's also expensive, By the time you buy barrels, brass, dies, reamers, and different powders!

Bart
Click to expand...
Boy can I relate to that Bart.
 
I AGREE but the guy was asking about a 6.5 and everything
i have read, encluding a specific question i asked said the bullet
in 6.5 is the limiting factor.

so IMHO the answer is still NO do not play in a loosing game.
 
CMaier said:
I AGREE but the guy was asking about a 6.5 and everything
i have read, encluding a specific question i asked said the bullet
in 6.5 is the limiting factor.

so IMHO the answer is still NO do not play in a loosing game.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct. Why start a game with a disadvantage going in?

Rick
 
CMaier said:
I AGREE but the guy was asking about a 6.5 and everything
i have read, encluding a specific question i asked said the bullet
in 6.5 is the limiting factor.

so IMHO the answer is still NO do not play in a loosing game.
Click to expand...

I agree! For about 10k and no guarantee of success I COULD (but not going to) work on that bullet problem!

Bart
 
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Anytime you are looking at a different way to achieve a specific goal, the first question should be,...."To what ends"?

Most people that know me are aware that in the realm of Short Range Benchrest, I have tried a lot of things in the past two decades in an attempt to find an advantage, or simply just to satisfy my own curiosity.

And, after all of that, I am still shooting a 6PPC in Group, and a 30BR in Score.

The reason is simple, I like being competitive. I am, though, going to start seriously considering a HV in 6BR 1-8 twist combination for 200-300 yard score. I just put one together to shoot the two 300 yard Matches at Walker County, and initial test show that is is precision enough combined with a substantial BC advantage to be worthwhile lugging an entire different combination to matches.
 

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Bart said:
Experimenting is in some people's blood its what drives them. I have become more of an experimenter out of necessity since I've started making long range bullets. While experimenting is fun, it's also expensive, By the time you buy barrels, brass, dies, reamers, and different powders!

Bart
Click to expand...


Bart, You hit it bud......... jim
 
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