6.5 saum

jbhotrod

jbhotrod

New member
Has anyone tried this round for F-Open? It has been growing in popularity with the tactical community ever since GA Precision started chambering for it. It seems like the perfect cartridge for F-Class IMO. 3200-3250fps should be possible pretty easily with 140gr bullets and 3100fps shouldnt be a problem with the 160gr Matrix VLDs.

IMO thats where the true advantage lies, is the 160gr Matrix bullets with around ~.680 BC at 3100fps. Thats a potent load right there. With something that can be shot without a muzzle brake, I could see this combination dominating if accuracy can be found.

So has anyone tested the 160gr Matrix bullets? And has anyone tried out a 6.5 SAUM? If so, what did you think?

At first glance, it certainly appears to be a promising cartridge. If ran at 3150fps with 140s, barrel life will be quite respectable, 3000(+) rounds according to Mr Gardner of GA Precision.
 
I know it's annoying when you ask a specific question and someone relies to another question but, as no one has answered - I haven't had a 6.5 SAUM but I did run a 6.5 WSM for F Open. i was shooting 139gn Lapua Scenars at 3400fps. using RL25. It was a superb round but barrel-life? Worse than a 7mmWSM - around 600 rounds!
 
Everything I've read and people I've talked to say a 6.5-284 shooting 140s at 2950-3000 has a barrel life of about 1800-2000 shots. What makes George think a 6.5 SAUM shooting 140s at 3200-3250 will get 3000 shots? I am asking here not making any accusations. My 6.5-284 probably has 700 shots and shows little or no wear, but its been babied big time. I am a big fan of a high speed 6.5, if this is possible Ive got a magnum bolt and a reamer is a phone call away. Though going from Lapua brass to Remington is not a step forward. Keep me posted cause if it doable Iam all over it.
 
ebb said:
Everything I've read and people I've talked to say a 6.5-284 shooting 140s at 2950-3000 has a barrel life of about 1800-2000 shots. What makes George think a 6.5 SAUM shooting 140s at 3200-3250 will get 3000 shots?
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I agree after having a 6.5 WSM whose accuracy only lasted 5-600 rounds, how is it possible to get upwards of 2,000 rounds out of a cartridge that has about the same capacity?

I love 6.5's and think that if you can get 2,000 rounds accurately out of the 6.5 SAUM it would be a great F-Open round for LR comps. I will immediately order a 6.5 SAUM reamer if I see someone shooting a rig accurately that has over 1,500 rounds on it shooting the same brutal course of fire that F-class requires. Shooting relays of 20 rounds plus sighters in as fast as 7 minutes in summer heat is hard on the barrel.
 
I find this thread puzzling with the reported barrel life claims. I have campaigned a 6.5x284 extensively and got nowhere near 1800 round count, more like 900 and several Kreigers as well as two Brux barrels were done. The 6.5x284 is a notorious barrel burner.

I also shot a 6.5-06 Gibbs, this is a great accuracy cartridge but very hard on barrels and brass, and I shot it right around the velocity's mentioned 3250. My Lapua brass last for only three loadings and barrel life is very short at right at 700 rounds or so. Bob Pastor is a great fan of this cartridge as I am as well. Bob has won just about everything in F-Class there is to win in Canada at one time or another. It is a great round, but you are going to have very short component life, that is just the price you pay with some cartridges.

I would just bet that a 6.5 SAUM shooting 140 class bullets at 3150 will have nowhere close to 3,000 round count, more like 1,000 if you are real lucky.

Roland
 
Has anyone here ever owned and operated a SAUM??? The actual round? For accuracy?

I haven't, but the WSSM case is an unmitigated disaster. If the SAUM is similar I'd steer well clear.

jb I'd be very careful of spending your money on guesses, but my GUESS is, I'd not bet the bank on it.

al
 
You can see the barrel life claims for yourself here:

http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper...s/185807-new-gap-extreme-hunter-6-5-saum.html

Its been being touted as nearly a wonder cartridge in the tactical sources.

Sure does look to me like it would make a potent F-Class round. Capacity around 10 grains less than WSM. And obviously they are running it very mild.

Pretty sure Mr Gardners personal rifle is around 2000+ rounds and showing little if any decreased accuracy. Havent been keeping up with it currently though.
 
jbhotrod said:
You can see the barrel life claims for yourself here:

http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper...s/185807-new-gap-extreme-hunter-6-5-saum.html

Its been being touted as nearly a wonder cartridge in the tactical sources.

Sure does look to me like it would make a potent F-Class round. Capacity around 10 grains less than WSM. And obviously they are running it very mild.

Pretty sure Mr Gardners personal rifle is around 2000+ rounds and showing little if any decreased accuracy. Havent been keeping up with it currently though.
Click to expand...

I remember that old thread over o the Hide. Don't remember a lot about it as I truly thought it was more of a joke than anything else, and folks just doing a little bragging on there new toys ( nothing wrong with that by the way). I guess because it's on the internet it must be true. Right?

Listen if this is the "One" for you then go for it and prove all of the folks wrong who are shooting cartridges that are similar with similar ballistics and similar velocity wrong.

This is the way I see it. If you are shooting a 140 grain 6.5 bullet at 3200 to 3250 fps, or a 6.5 160 grain bullet at 3150 fps ( your calculations) and are able to get 3 or 4 times ( 3000+ rds ) once again your calculation, barrel life than more power to you. But I must ask this question. Why would you be able to that with the 6.5 saum as opposed to the 6.5-284 which is challenged to get these numbers and extend your barrel life 3 times over the others? Or why would you be able to do with the 6.5 saum, with a similar powder charge as the 6.5-06 and get over 4 times the barrel life? Is just the name enough.

These talk forums are all about opinions. In my opinion and from my "experience" with many barrels and two different rifles you are not going to be able to do what you think you are with this 6.5 saum. That is no reason at all not to give it a shot.

Remember this is competition you will be shooting at most 1,000 yard F-Class matchs somewhere around 25 shots per relay. That is unlimited sighters and your 20 shots for record. These are timed events and you will have 30 minutes to do that. The top or winning shooters are done and removing there equipment from the line in 10 minutes or so, give or take a little each way. Shooting like this builds very high temps in the barrel, high heat kills barrels.

Good Luck to you and I hope it works for you. If it does I may build one .

Roland
 
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I was a little mixed in my statements.

Much like the 6mm Competition match, if you run it under their strict/mild load conditions, it will make that high barrel life. But you can also push it to the limit and make the velocities I mentioned in my first post and machine-gun the barrel, it wont have very long barrel life.

What Im trying to convey, is that if you run it at just about or a little above 6.5-284 performance, it will show long life due to such low pressure, along with maybe even seeing if one can find a accurate load with one of the cooler burning powders.

Im not trying to push this on anybody, its just that Ive seen a lot of people buying 6.5 SAUM-chambered rifles and giving raving reviews about them on snipershide as well as longrangehunting, where Mr Sherman(aka "elkaholic")`s "6.5 Short Sherman" has been making waves; as its a Creedmoor length 6.5 SAUM and can seat long VLDs at mag-length without intruding on the powder column.

Just wondering if anyone has used one/shot one/etc.

Thanks for any/all replies.
 
Well, two friends of mine had factory 243's, one a Rem700 243SAUM and the other a Win70 'Coyote' or somesuch in 243WSSM and I've personally ran through all calibers with the WSSM case. ALL of them exhibited the same characteristics of nasty bolt lift and marginal accuracy. I don't see anything to make the 6.5SAUM different. IMO the case design is flawed, it's too short to reliably grip the chamber walls for lockup.
 
The accuracy claims coming from tactical shooters might not mean much for f-open or benchrest shooters. The tactical shoots that I have heard about are shot and scored by teams of shooters and spotters shooting at steel plates at various yardages and scored as simply a hit or a miss. It's hard to notice a deteriation of accuracy outside of ¼moa when you are shooting at ½moa or larger targets.
When f-open rifles start to shoot out the x count drops. When a long range benchrest barrel starts to fail the groups open. When you are shooting steel plates... they keep shooting till one day you check your seeting depth and a case of the oh sh!+ sets in when you realize your bullet can't touch the lands and still be anywhere near the case mouth. Then the accuracy potential of the barrel starts to deteriorate at the same rate as the shooters confidence.
If George can shoot 2000+ accurately some one else can too. I think I'll order a new reamer for the 6.5 SAUM.
 
The claims on barrel life with this cartridge were made under very specific conditions, namely using H1000 powder and 130 Bergers at 3200ish or the 140's at 3100-3150fps. At these velocities and the powder used the pressures are running quite a bit lower than normal high pressure lodgings and George did claim he had over 3000 rounds on a barrel with much shot under match conditions. The case is capable of more velocity, but in the interest of barrel life he choose to use a case that could be run at lower pressure and create a good velocity. That's the gist of the thread as what I got out of it...and last week my reamer was delivered...I'm going to play with it myself.
 
msalm said:
The claims on barrel life with this cartridge were made under very specific conditions, namely using H1000 powder and 130 Bergers at 3200ish or the 140's at 3100-3150fps. At these velocities and the powder used the pressures are running quite a bit lower than normal high pressure lodgings and George did claim he had over 3000 rounds on a barrel with much shot under match conditions. The case is capable of more velocity, but in the interest of barrel life he choose to use a case that could be run at lower pressure and create a good velocity. That's the gist of the thread as what I got out of it...and last week my reamer was delivered...I'm going to play with it myself.
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Keep us posted when you get this rascal up and running. I am very curious as to the accuracy of this cartridge. Barrel count means very little to me, or I wouldn't be shooting two notorious barrel burners the 6.5-06 Gibbs and the 6.5-284. If this has the (Accuracy) I would take a hard look at it as well. I can live with the barrel life if it has the extreme accuracy that F-Class demands, after all that X-Ring at 1/2 MOA at a 1,000 is a damn good benchmark for an accurate rifle. And that doesn't even come to Long Range Benchrest and it's demands.

Roland
 
I agree with whats said here. Any cartridge can be "accurate" and win in a tactical format. That doesnt mean it will be able to agg and keep up with a 6BR/Dasher or .300 WSM at 1000yd in a BR competition. But atleast from what Ive seen of cartridge design, and what works/wins in F-Open and Light/Heavy Gun at 1000yd I do think the 6.5 SAUM could be a viable contender and possibly a winner. IMO the 6.5 WSM is just too much and too big, but size it down a bit to the 6.5 SAUM or possibly a bit smaller and I think you may have something.

I certainly think its worth a try, and if I had the money Id give a 6.5 SAUM a go in F-Open.

Hence, my wondering, has anyone tried to get some serious consistency performance out of it in a long range F-Class and/or other format(Benchrest)?

Apparently SAUM brass is not so easy to get, but Id think it would be possible to form it from .270 or .300 WSM.
 
I was able to get ahold of both Norma and Rem 300 RSAUM brass, forming needs a little work as I get very un-even sizing. Been thinking about making a sizing plate for use with a drill press as that is supposed to work pretty well. Otherwise you can buy ready-made brass from Copper Creek, but it's pretty expensive. I have the reamer that requires some neck turning and I'm thinking it might work better to turn before sizing down fully to 6.5 as that should avoid any doughnut issues.
 
I know this is a bit off-topic but figured I would ask here instead of a new thread.

Ive heard mostly good reports on the .308 Palma case, that the majority of shooters are seeing more consistent vertical. With that said, has anyone tried doing a .260 or .260 Improved using .308 Palma small-primer brass? Do yall think this would work out very well?

Thanks.
Blake.
 
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