42 yards, water test, stopped muzzle

D

Douglas

Guest
Well, I finally got off my butt today to find out for myself what's what after reading about all the fuss for the last couple months.

The rifle I used was built by a famous gunsmith (not Calfee) here on benchrest.com, the barrel was the hot barrel that everyone had to have a couple years ago, the ammo is Eley black box. I used three different velocities ammo, 1040, 1060, 1080. Conditions were calm this morning, didn't even set out flags. I used IR50/50 targets.

At my range we have portable target boards so I was able to set the portable one at 42 yards and still able to see over and shoot over the 42 yarder to our permanent 50 yarders. In other words, I didn't have to move the 42 yarder to shoot the 50 yarder.

My rifle was a good shooter, but not a killer. I never scored a lot of X's, shot upper 240's. The tuner had one 8oz weight, set at about 250, so I did have a leg up over starting from scratch. I started out using the 1040 and the 1080, showed verticle. Then I started adding weight with RVA's weights, one oz at a time. Verticle almost disappeared, added 1/2oz went the other way. Then I started adjusting the tuner, without the 1/2 oz, backed off about 50 clicks, no more verticle. Just to make sure I started to use all three velocities, 1040, 1060, 1080, no verticle, pretty happy. These test shots were rather fast, not waiting between shots, feeling pretty good almost one hole.

Next was the water test, this is shoot three rapid shots, the third round just pull back the bolt enough for the empty case to clear the chamber, not eject, then close the bolt on the empty round, then wait at least one minute, eject the empty, insert the fourth round and fire. The fourth round was a flipper, a little higher than the first three. I did this three times, just to make sure, and had the same results, the muzzle was not stopped. A little more playing around adjusting the tuner, finally got it dead nuts. Using all three velocities, rapid fire and waiting between shots, this muzzle is stopped, at 42 yards.

I then went up to the 50yd target, same firing procedure on the three sighters. I then began shooting for record using the 1060 velocity ammo. The whole target I had one bad flipper, an eight, don't know why, remember I didn't have flags out. I shot 14X's, prevously I never shot more than 6X's with this rifle. I think I got the job done, we'll see this Saturday's match.

I began with 8ozs weight on the tuner, ended up with 12ozs, set back 100 clicks on the tuner. That's my story, hope you didn't get too bored.

Thanks, Douglas
 
I don't believe you had water in the barrel to throw a shot. I think the barrel cooled down and the lube solidifyed a bit. Or your gun settled in the bag if you shoot and wait. There is NO proof of water to throw your shot.
 
50 & 100

I test and tune at the distance I shoot my normal matches at. Makes no sense to test at 42 yards, as no groups shoots that yardage. When you say the shot was a flipper, does that mean it was an X?
 
"I used three different velocities ammo, 1040, 1060, 1080"

Did you run them over a chronograph or just went by what was printed on the box?
 
Fred brings up a good point also, Why test at an non-match distance. I see people doing this all the time. What is gained and how can any test be valid at a non standard distance.
 
42 yds.?

Perhaps because "lord calfee" said that was THE optimal test range?
I notice billy C. has been rather.........absent lately?:D
Colt.45
 
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In still conditions if you pull the bolt after a shot and look down the barrel you will see gases in the barrel. If you watch the gases slowly dissipate. If you shoot while the gases are in the barrel you will get a lower velocity than if you wait till they dissipate. These are gases from the burnt powder. Shooting in a wind these gases dissipate quickly when you open the bolt. Anyhow using a chronograph you can get a lower SD by shooting at a steady pace so the gases in the barrel are the same. You can also use a flexible straw to blow out the barrel after each shot so the SD stays lower even if you don't shoot a consistent pace. Since I only get calm conditions indoors I don't worry about it. Rich PS - don't know nothing about any water.
 
For those of you that have always wondered about the condensation that has been reported in barrels here is a little experiment for you to try. When done shooting a card go back and without hesitation run a dry patch and then touch it to your lips. You will no doubt feel how wet that patch is. Try it.
 
Lew said:
I don't believe you had water in the barrel to throw a shot. I think the barrel cooled down and the lube solidifyed a bit. Or your gun settled in the bag if you shoot and wait. There is NO proof of water to throw your shot.
Click to expand...

Whatever the cause...he stated that the tuner made it stop.
 
How can you tell if the tuner made it stop. Iv'e read the posts about the water and I don't believe any of the tests showed or proved anything.
 
not arguing

Just sayin' that the adjustment made the flier stop with no change otherwise. Could have been coincidence. Like you, I can't imagine a method that would fix the subject "flyer" but I haven't taken the time to experiment. I'm gonna shoot the sighter after a prolonged wait regardless.
 
Bill has explained the 42yds distance in detail. I admit, it's one of the few things he has but if people want to jump on him...they should at least have read what he has written.

Hovis
 
Read my comment

Maybe I should have said it didn't make any sense to test at 42 yards, because I do not shot any disaplines that shoot that distance. Of course, my words aren't cast in stone and found on the mountain top either.
 
Fred J said:
Maybe I should have said it didn't make any sense to test at 42 yards, because I do not shot any disaplines that shoot that distance. Of course, my words aren't cast in stone and found on the mountain top either.
Click to expand...
Fred, you have been shooting benchrest 22 for a lot longer than me. One of our mutual friends who is a top shooter for sure says he tests bullets at 25 yards in order to minimize the effects of wind. Does that make any sense?

Concho Bill
 
Fred...I wasn't directing my comments to anyone directly....including you. It did sound a little harsh. I appologize for that. The 42yd distance has been covered a lot on here..that's all. I don't know if it works or not..guess I need to try it but I don't seem to get flippers when I wait but haven't tried different velocities at 42yds.

Hovis
 
If that's what he thinks

Bill:
If Harry thinks it works for him, then that's what he should do. If BC thinks it helps him then the same goes for him as well. Again, I think it's doesn't make sense for me. I don't have a basement that measures 25 yards much less 42 yards corner to corner either. I said to many times, and that's I'd rather test and practice at the same distances and conditions that I would normally compete at. This is the way I've done it since 1968, and I think I've done well doing it my way. See you at Danny's place after I get back from Alaska.
 
Fellas, I did not want or expect this thread to turn into a funny thread. I'm also not trying to prove or disprove any theories, such as water in the bore. All I did was follow the man's procedure (I hope I did it right) that he set forth on the centerfire board, which has been switched to the general discussion board. Why test at 42yds, I haven't got a clue? I must have missed Calfee's explanation on it, so many threads have been deleted. The thing of it is, the procedure worked, the muzzle is stopped. It took me about three hours and a bunch of ammo, but I think it was worth the effort and the expense.

One important thing I forgot to mention in my results; I said my one bad flipper was an eight, along with a couple nines. But here's the important thing, all 25 shots were horizontally in the same plane as the X dot, no vertical whatsoever. If I would have drawn a pencil line across each row, at the center dot, each bullet hole would have touched that line. I think that's what having a stopped muzzle means, no verticle. The windage is up to the shooter, conditions, watching the flags.

Thanks, Douglas
 
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