30br vs 6ppc?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
FBecigneul
Member
Done right, they take equal time and steps to prepare. The .30BR is more forgiving as to staying in tune over the course of a morning or a day.
Kyle Schultz
Member
If you are planning to shoot VFS matches, I strongly recommend you stay with the 30BR. VFS is best edge scoring and a .308" bullet has an inherent advantage over a 0.243" bullet. In addition, the 30BR is a very easy round to tune and tends to stay in tune over a larger window. Relatively speaking, the 6PPC is a wild stallion to tame.
If you're considering caliber-neutral matches like UBR, I probably would still stay with the 30BR because of how easy it is to tune.
Good luck!
I think
you may be thinking about a new organization called UBR, where they vary the size of the target depending on your caliber so that scoring is caliber neutral. Its being shot some in the mid atlantic states I believe.
you may be thinking about a new organization called UBR, where they vary the size of the target depending on your caliber so that scoring is caliber neutral. Its being shot some in the mid atlantic states I believe.
One of my local clubs has been doing that for a year or so but i think they are going back to one target for all.
Its a small club and the extra cost of the different targets and logistics for the scorer was getting to be a pain especially when its two of the shooters doing the scoring.
geo.ulrich
Member
Yes there are reticals that measure all at a certain caliber, such as if you shot a 22 it would have a 22 scribed inside and a 30 cal outside to score it equal with the 30's. It's a pretty simple system funny no one has adapted it ...
AndyTaber
New member
I bought one of those reticles To possibly use at Iosco Sportsmens Club matches. It seemed to be less of a hassle than trying to stock targets for each caliber as they do in UBR.
As you can imagine, those shooting the 30BR aren’t very receptive to the idea.
As has been said, there are a couple of ways to go about this. I've been directing Ultimate Benchrest Matches (UBR) for eight, going on nine years. We use a caliber neutral target meaning we have targets for .224, .243 & .308. This covers 95% of all calibers that show up for a match. We do occasionally get a .204 or a .257, maybe a few more for Factory Class. I can tell you that stocking and paying for 3 different targets is a non-issue. You will use the same number of targets for a match as you would use if you only had one and they all are the same cost. It's been ten years since I bought IBS Varmint For Score targets, so I don't know the current price. I doubt there is much difference in the two, but I know that Danny doesn't make anything selling targets and if a club isn't involved in UBR SSOY competition there would be little incentive for him to provide targets except as a courtesy. But the idea that it is more difficult to stock several targets and score several targets simply isn't valid. We all use a reticle with each caliber and it's no problem to score them all at the same time. The majority of our shooters use a .243, but an increasing # shoot a .224. Few have stayed with a .308, as in a 30BR or a 30 major, although there are a few.
That being said, if a club doesn't want to compete in UBR it would be a pretty simple thing to get one of the reticles that have a .308 embossed with all the other calibers inside the .308. I have a couple and have used them. They aren't my preference, but they will do the job. I got mine from Ron Goodger and he may still have them available. Our experience has been that once folks find that they can compete with smaller calibers in score shooting, they will gravitate toward them. One can occasionally win shooting a .243 against a .308, but it won't happen often, there is just too great an advantage for the .308. It makes a huge hole. Every season more UBR competitors move to the .224. When I first started Competing in UBR with a 220 Beggs I think I was the only one shooting a .224 bullet. The first UBR match this season had nearly 1/2 shooting either a 220 Beggs or a 22 PPC. I probably should have kept quiet about mine.
Rick
That being said, if a club doesn't want to compete in UBR it would be a pretty simple thing to get one of the reticles that have a .308 embossed with all the other calibers inside the .308. I have a couple and have used them. They aren't my preference, but they will do the job. I got mine from Ron Goodger and he may still have them available. Our experience has been that once folks find that they can compete with smaller calibers in score shooting, they will gravitate toward them. One can occasionally win shooting a .243 against a .308, but it won't happen often, there is just too great an advantage for the .308. It makes a huge hole. Every season more UBR competitors move to the .224. When I first started Competing in UBR with a 220 Beggs I think I was the only one shooting a .224 bullet. The first UBR match this season had nearly 1/2 shooting either a 220 Beggs or a 22 PPC. I probably should have kept quiet about mine.
Rick
Last edited:
jackie schmidt
New member
It's not smoke and mirrors. If you are going to shoot 100-200-300 VFS, shot a 30.
Totally agree. If you are shooting VFS it's gotta be a 30, one kind or another.
Rick
jackie schmidt
New member
As long as the NBRSA and IBS use best edge scoring, I will shoot a 30 in score.
I do not see this changing any time soon.
R
retired
Guest
that is fine for the wantabe caliberless matches,
but real br has a 40 cal limit
but real br has a 40 cal limit
Maybe I will put one of my spare Nighforce BR scopes on my .45-70
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Yup - it's all about managing recoil!
Good point! It reminds of the time (at a NBRSA Registered Hunter tournament) I was positioned next to a fellow
using a .460 Weatherby - his advantage was consumed by lack of recoil management - at 100 Yd., he had a difficult time keeping all of his shots on the target card! Thankfully, he ran out of ammo during match #3 - he only took 60 Rd. - that was some brutal muzzle-blast!
On the NBRSA/IBS 100 score targets, presuming equal precision, the thirty has a slight advantage - about 0.032".
At two hundred yards, the edge, "goes up in smoke" (actually, wind), as the bullet diameter difference in less than 1//10Th of the drift induce by a 1MPH wind: 68 Gr. 6mm, @3400 FPS, about 0.39" per MPH; 118 Gr. 30 Cal., @3050 FPS, about 0.36" per MPH. Again, the equivalent of a perpendicular 1MPH wind velocity change cancels the diameter difference completely - the best doper/executioner/shooter wins.
In a 200 Yd/Grand Aggregate format, it boils down to tuning, doping, and execution - some, who cannot manage recoil would do better shooting a smaller caliber. That said, the equal precision required to use the advantage at 100 Yd. does not come without the recoil baggage. Keep 'em ON the X! RG
Maybe I will put one of my spare Nighforce BR scopes on my .45-70
Good point! It reminds of the time (at a NBRSA Registered Hunter tournament) I was positioned next to a fellow
using a .460 Weatherby - his advantage was consumed by lack of recoil management - at 100 Yd., he had a difficult time keeping all of his shots on the target card!
Thankfully, he ran out of ammo during match #3 - he only took 60 Rd. - that was some brutal muzzle-blast! On the NBRSA/IBS 100 score targets, presuming equal precision, the thirty has a slight advantage - about 0.032".
At two hundred yards, the edge, "goes up in smoke" (actually, wind), as the bullet diameter difference in less than 1//10Th of the drift induce by a 1MPH wind: 68 Gr. 6mm, @3400 FPS, about 0.39" per MPH; 118 Gr. 30 Cal., @3050 FPS, about 0.36" per MPH. Again, the equivalent of a perpendicular 1MPH wind velocity change cancels the diameter difference completely - the best doper/executioner/shooter wins.
In a 200 Yd/Grand Aggregate format, it boils down to tuning, doping, and execution - some, who cannot manage recoil would do better shooting a smaller caliber.
That said, the equal precision required to use the advantage at 100 Yd. does not come without the recoil baggage. Keep 'em ON the X! RGGood point! It reminds of the time (at a NBRSA Registered Hunter tournament) I was positioned next to a fellow
using a .460 Weatherby - his advantage was consumed by lack of recoil management - at 100 Yd., he had a difficult time keeping all of his shots on the target card!
On the NBRSA/IBS 100 score targets, presuming equal precision, the thirty has a slight advantage - about 0.032".
At two hundred yards, the edge, "goes up in smoke" (actually, wind), as the bullet diameter difference in less than 1//10Th of the drift induce by a 1MPH wind: 68 Gr. 6mm, @3400 FPS, about 0.39" per MPH; 118 Gr. 30 Cal., @3050 FPS, about 0.36" per MPH. Again, the equivalent of a perpendicular 1MPH wind velocity change cancels the diameter difference completely - the best doper/executioner/shooter wins.
In a 200 Yd/Grand Aggregate format, it boils down to tuning, doping, and execution - some, who cannot manage recoil would do better shooting a smaller caliber.
Randy,
It seems like we've both commented on this in the past. I don't think we reached an agreement then and I doubt we will now.
In my experience scoring targets, which amounts to more than eight years and a few hundred matches, several thousand targets, .032 is not a "slight" advantage, it is a HUGE advantage for a group of folks who all are shooting extremely accurate rifles and most of whom are precision shooters. Even at 100 yards a shooter with a .308 has a near insurmountable advantage, everything else being equal. True, rarely someone does win with a 6mm (243(, but you must admit this is uncommon, especially when almost no one bothers to compete in score with anything other than a .308. Give me a .032 advantage going into a match and I will beat the competition 95% of the time, maybe more. Rick
Last edited:
AndyTaber
New member
I shoot a 6BR in 100 yard score matches. Over the years I have closely examined my targets after a match to see what would have happened if I was shooting a 30. In the vast majority of times I might have picked up an X or two, but never enough to make a significant difference in the match outcome. I simply needed to become a better shooter because the wind was my disadvantage.
This has lead me to think perhaps the true advantage of the 30 caliber over a 6mm bullet is the weight of the bullet. Those shooting a 30 are using a bullet in the 115 gr range vs the 65 gr used by most shooting a 6. I think the heavier bullet is just less affected by the wind and that is the true advantage.
This has lead me to think perhaps the true advantage of the 30 caliber over a 6mm bullet is the weight of the bullet. Those shooting a 30 are using a bullet in the 115 gr range vs the 65 gr used by most shooting a 6. I think the heavier bullet is just less affected by the wind and that is the true advantage.