30Br seating

I may have missed it in another post, but along with the slower powder throw speed (dropping the handle very slowly so as to allow fewer kernels to enter the case at a time along with a longer drop tube will allow the kernels to pack together) you may also run into issues of a compressed load with the seating depth that you are running. I ended up taping two drop tubes together and ended up with 8" - not sure of the internal diameter, but I would guess that the larger going into the smaller would allow for fewer kernels to go in at a time. I have found with my current set-up I am not able to jump at all with any charge over 33.5grs of H4198. If I run my match load of 34.5gr the best I can do is .015 jam before I run into a compressed load (my jam is determined by the point at which the bullet is touching the lands and not the "square mark as the jam starting point" method. I mention this fact because not all jumps and jams are necessarily equal and is dependent on which method you use.) I am using a Robinette reamer with zero freebore BIB 118 7-ogives.
You may find success with your seater simply by moving your seating depth out in .003 increments until you can seat the bullet without having to push to hard to get it where you want it. I had this issue with my wilson seater and I don't believe it is the fault of the seater, but the force that I was applying to make it work.
I have found that my 30br likes a bit of jam (0.030) to shoot to its full potential, but there are many others who have great success with far less jam than I run.
Mike
 
bdotson said:
Ok I can get a longer drop tube and will. Can someone explain how it works? How can I get more powder in a smaller space by using a longer tube? If it works, it works, but I would like to understand how and why. Thanks
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with my compressed load at 42.8gr of 135 in an 30 HBR case. My bullet is a BIB 136, 10og. It would tend to stick in the stem when using my Wilson bullet seater. Oddly enough my Lee bullet seater worked fine with consistent accurate seating depth. Go figure. By-the-way, you can also settle your powder in the case a bit by putting your finger over the case mouth and lightly tapping the side with a small screw driver. In addition, try polishing the inside of your seating stem where it meets the bullet with fine 0000 steel wool or emery cloth.

Good luck...virg
 
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Ok my cases are 1.515 my bullets are .938 I have a loaded round at 2.237. this is just toucing the lands. My calculations show the bullet would have to be .216 in the case. I dropped a charge of 63 clicks and measured it .100 from the case mouth that is .116 compression right? I then weighed the charge and get 33.4 grains so now what I used 12tube and dropped it very slow then tapped on the side of it still .100 from the case mouth? any Ideas? does 2.237 sound right? for a coal
 
bdotson

Is your gun shooting well enought to win with 34.5 grains.???
If you are not seeing the accuracy you want...try a couple of things...
Lower the charge back to 33.5 grains...
Shoot over a chronograph when the temperature is in the 70-80 degree range..
Try to achieve 2950-2985 fps...
Then adjust seating depth to achieve best 4 group average...
34.5 grains isn't the magic load for all 30BRs...you can shoot less powder...
Here in Texas you will see high temps(70-100 degrees). more than low temps(30-60degrees)...I guarantee that your rifle will shoot 33.0-33.5 grains of H4198 well enough to shoot 250-20+ Xs if you do your part...
A local shooter here has NOT lost a score match in the last 9-10 VFS shoots we've held and he shoots 33.5 grns of H4198 with a 118 grain Cheek bullet...
If the weather gets hot he drops down to 33.0 grains...
He doesn't need more powder to win..:)
Find out what your gun likes and don't choose a receipe from shooters forums..

Tym Combest can jump in anytime...he is the guy "whuppin us like rented mules"


Eddie in Texas
 
Here's what I do: ( it's been awhile since I have offered my epistle) I typically begin with a load that is known to work in a number of barrels, 33 or 34g. Say it's 34g. I load test rounds in groups of three start at 34g. I then load groups lots of 3 increasing the chargre by .2g for each group going up to 35g. Somewhere in those lots of three a good group should appear.

If it is not small enough I then work with seating depth using the same process, beginning where one can see just faint marks of where the bullet touches the lands. (I us
.004" of neck tension: got to be able to hold the seating depth you want to test) I then seat three bullets there and increase the OAL's of each round in each groupof three by.003. I usually will load 6 groups of those.

If the barrel I have is any good at all and I have accurately filled my cases with the exact charge( I use a Chargemaste, always) and made sure that every round I loaded was the same EXACT length in each group of three, measured where the faint land marks appeared, one of those seating depths will give me a tight round hole. A great barrel will repeat zero group after zero group.

There are other ways to tune but I want to know as exact as I can, what I have for a charge and where the bullets are seated. This is a Precision Sport, eh? Then why not make everything as precise as we can get it? I have heard folks say they are able to get 38g of H-4198 in their cases, My thinking is, Why would I want to do that when the 33 to 34 g loads work as well as I can shoot them.

Keep GREAT DETAILED NOTES.
 
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My routine is exactly as Pete's. What i have found for my two current barrels is that just below 34gr is my sweet spot for the lot of 4198 i currently have. Oddly enough my seating depths are also very close to each other for these two barrels. One barrel is a Brux and the other a krieger. I am seating my bullets .020 back from a full push back length or JAM so i still feel that i am in the rifling say .010 to .015. I guess i am not doing this exactly like Pete as i work back from the Jam and not towards. I find it a little difficult to determine when the bullet first just touches the lands. To hard to see for me anyway. So i find my push back or full jam and work in reverse. I then can measure the square marks on the bullet to determine ABOUT how much room i have to work with and still keep my bullet into the lands. I don't want to jump a bullet unless thats what the barrel is calling for and thus far with four different barrels i havent found a barrel yet that shot best while jumping. Strangely enough again i have found my seating depths to be right around .010 to .020 into the rifling. As far as powder, No way would i try to put 38gr of powder into one of these cases. I just dont see how it would ever fit. Good read!! Lee
 
bdotson said:
Ok my cases are 1.515 my bullets are .938 I have a loaded round at 2.237. this is just toucing the lands. My calculations show the bullet would have to be .216 in the case. I dropped a charge of 63 clicks and measured it .100 from the case mouth that is .116 compression right? I then weighed the charge and get 33.4 grains so now what I used 12tube and dropped it very slow then tapped on the side of it still .100 from the case mouth? any Ideas? does 2.237 sound right? for a coal
Click to expand...

I gotta' tell 'ya...I'm pretty confused as to what and how your trying to measure the seating length differences you originally asked about. :confused: 'Course, being a South Dakotan, it doesn't take much to confuse me so you may well be 'way ahead of me on the whole deal! :eek: ;) :D

Let's back up and start again, okay? How are you determing the distance from the base of the case to the ogive/shank intersection on the bullet?

Are you checking the seating with a tool like the Stoney Point/Hornady deal? A Sinclair 'nut' type comparator?

same1.jpg
 
bdotson,
That won't get it. You need to measure and compare as Al is showing.
I guess you are the only one that I know that tried the longer drop tube and slowly trickled the powder and saw no change.
Be patient and it will come together.
Butch
 
bdotson said:
I measured the over all length from base to tip. 2.237
Click to expand...

The o.a.l. (measured to the tip of the bullet) can be misleading.

The area forward of where the ogive begins often varies within a 'lot' of bullets...while the distance to where the ogive begins remains the same. It's this distance, the base to ogive, that you want to be measuring when checking to see if your seating process is giving consistent results. That's what the Stoney Point/Hornady tool posted is measuring. You may want to try this type of tool, or a 'nut' style comparator, to get a closer idea of what's going on.

For example, I just measured a handful of 117's on the 1.00" jacket. The o.a.l. ranged from .971 to .975, while the base-to-ogive is identical on all of them at .368.

With a very compressed powder charge, it's not unusual to see the base-to-ogive number change a bit due to the force of the powder against the base of the bullet. I use a short 4" drop tube but with a .17 cal. insert in the bottom..slows the fill rate enough to let the powder settle a bit more in the case. A longer drop tube or a spring stretched out and placed inside the tube can also help the case 'fill' a bit better.

Sorry if I misinterpreted what the original question was. :) -Al
 
No No I am not good at explaining this situation. 1. Lets say you make up a round 2. now measure it tip to base that is over all length. 3. Now pull that bullet and reassemble that case it wll be diffrent. 4. Now measure it tip to base set the seater die .005 longer to seat the bullet .005 deeper 5. now measure it same way tip to base it is now .020 longer yes .020 longer. What happen? I think it is compressing the powder causing the seater stem to dig in the bullet sticking to it slightly then when you let the ram down it pulls the bullet back out part way? I have the nut and use the new redding case compariter to measure the ogive.
 
As an experiment

skeetlee said:
My routine is exactly as Pete's. What i have found for my two current barrels is that just below 34gr is my sweet spot for the lot of 4198 i currently have. Oddly enough my seating depths are also very close to each other for these two barrels. One barrel is a Brux and the other a krieger. I am seating my bullets .020 back from a full push back length or JAM so i still feel that i am in the rifling say .010 to .015. I guess i am not doing this exactly like Pete as i work back from the Jam and not towards. I find it a little difficult to determine when the bullet first just touches the lands. To hard to see for me anyway. So i find my push back or full jam and work in reverse. I then can measure the square marks on the bullet to determine ABOUT how much room i have to work with and still keep my bullet into the lands. I don't want to jump a bullet unless thats what the barrel is calling for and thus far with four different barrels i havent found a barrel yet that shot best while jumping. Strangely enough again i have found my seating depths to be right around .010 to .020 into the rifling. As far as powder, No way would i try to put 38gr of powder into one of these cases. I just dont see how it would ever fit. Good read!! Lee
Click to expand...

try it the way I do it. With lite neck tension,( size about 1/3rd of the neck) start a bullet in an empty case without a primer. Jam the bolt closed. Polish the bullet with 4-000 steel wool. Now, from that measurement push the bullet in the case by .003. look at the bullet again. If you can see land marks, push it back another three and continue that process until you can just barely see marks; just scratches, polishing the marks off the bullet each time before you check for marks. I'll bet it will take at least .012 to get the bullet back to get the slight land marks.

Once you know that mesurement, you have a factual basis to begin tuning from. I do not believe any degree of accuracy of measurement can be derived from guessing how square marks are. Once you know for sure where just touching is, you have an accurate place to begin.

I nearly always find that .006 into the lands from "Kiss" is the best seating depth for accuracy. I have had barrels that liked .009 and one that likes .015. Perhaps either .005 or .007 would give a tighter group but how many bullets does one want to use up to find it?

I firmly believe it is a lot better to know exactly where you are th begin with. The lands tend to move forward as the round count goes up but the same amount IN usually seem to work. Finding what I call the Kiss is the basis to work from as the lands move forward. One should re-confirm their Kiss on a regular basis.

Of course there a lot of guys winning matches throwing things together and jamming hard. I just like to see those tiny holes when I finally reach the optimum tune. I also want to know where that is so I can make a note of it.
 
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bdotson said:
Ok my cases are 1.515 my bullets are .938 I have a loaded round at 2.237. this is just toucing the lands. My calculations show the bullet would have to be .216 in the case. I dropped a charge of 63 clicks and measured it .100 from the case mouth that is .116 compression right? I then weighed the charge and get 33.4 grains so now what I used 12tube and dropped it very slow then tapped on the side of it still .100 from the case mouth? any Ideas? does 2.237 sound right? for a coal
Click to expand...

OK, here is where I think you messed up. See the highlited part. If you use a long tube and slowly, very slowly trickle the powder in you should be able to get 34.5 in with no problem. And leave some room to seat the bullet. I use the Conley 116 and 34.2 of H4198 and do not have a compressed load. When you tapped on the side of the case it fluffed the powder. Don't ask why this is but I tied just dumping the powder in and tapping the case to settle the powder and it didn't. I don't know why the slow trickle gets more powder in but it just does, and I use a 4" tube. And as many have said,.....forget about the OAL. It is base to ogive that matters. Just my thoughts, worth about what they cost you.

Donald
 
OK guys thanks so much for the help I have found at least one problem and fixed it. I was dropping to fast, as for seating depth I find .000 or just touching with a sinclair seating depth gage I have been pleased with it I put the bullet in by sliding in a bore guide. This has been very repeatable for me. Is anyone jumping a 30br?
 
Peter W.-the thread is about inconsistent seating and trying to figure out why the amount of seat is inconsistent without changing the length of stem and some other irregularities, but it is not about tuning. You may not have read the complete thread or misunderstood it, but I thought you would want to know.

The following are just some of my thoughts while reading the posts. Some of you have mentioned bushing size and the need to go tighter. Don't you need to also know neck thickness to have a better understanding of what to do concerning bushing size? Wouldn't you get the same relative tension with neck wall thickness of .010 using a 325 bushing as you would with .095 with a 324??? Randy J.
 
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30 BR seating issues

Hi I came across the same issue when I started out loading my 30BR
it was a robinette reamer norma case and 125 bergers
I started out just 0.005 behind the lands and 0.325 bush
34.5 grain H4198 and using wilson dies
what ever I do the bullet sticks to the seating stem as I withdraws the seating stem

I have posted everywhere and ask everybody I know and collectively this is what I did

Long drop tube - I roll a piece of kitchen wax paper into a funnel so I have 08 + inches
slow trickle
increase neck tension to 323
not a dicky bird since

shoots like a dream

Hope that helps
 
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