30br-Dasher
- Thread starter Redrock
- Start date
G
Gerry
Guest
30 br -dasher
Ok they are two different cases. I have a dasher in 6mm.
The neck winds up short. I guess you could neck it up, but i think you would lose a few cases allong the way. To form the dasher you have to turn the neck to some extent. If you go with a larger diameter neck it may work better. Turning the cases just enough to clean them up.
To form the dasher you have to seat the bullets long into the lands Hard.
I'm still playing with mine, in 6mm. I have tried 85gr and 95 gr bullets of my own. 33 to 33.5 grs of H4895 Gives close to 3000 fps. The 105 is also one in the same velocity range. I have made a few bullets in 100 gr to try.
More formation is on 6MMbr .com on the 6mm dasher.
I'm not sure how the 30 dasher would shoot. right now my 30br is pushing close to 3,000 with H4198. I think powder selection is going to be a whole new world. I
have no idea what the breech pressure would be if you tried stuffing more H4198 into a necked up dasher. It would have to be checked on a ballistic programe
Ok they are two different cases. I have a dasher in 6mm.
The neck winds up short. I guess you could neck it up, but i think you would lose a few cases allong the way. To form the dasher you have to turn the neck to some extent. If you go with a larger diameter neck it may work better. Turning the cases just enough to clean them up.
To form the dasher you have to seat the bullets long into the lands Hard.
I'm still playing with mine, in 6mm. I have tried 85gr and 95 gr bullets of my own. 33 to 33.5 grs of H4895 Gives close to 3000 fps. The 105 is also one in the same velocity range. I have made a few bullets in 100 gr to try.
More formation is on 6MMbr .com on the 6mm dasher.
I'm not sure how the 30 dasher would shoot. right now my 30br is pushing close to 3,000 with H4198. I think powder selection is going to be a whole new world. I
have no idea what the breech pressure would be if you tried stuffing more H4198 into a necked up dasher. It would have to be checked on a ballistic programe
M
mojo2138
Guest
30 Dasher
Jimmy Campbell of Winchester, Ky. shoots a 30 Dasher in IBS Score matches and it does shoot great. He likes the exta velocity, I'm here to tell you that it is more than competitive.
Danny Hensley is shooting both shorter and longer versions of the 30 BR and again, he is competitive.
I do not know who did the smithing. Maybe someone will chime in with more info.
I do know that they do work.
Jimmy Campbell of Winchester, Ky. shoots a 30 Dasher in IBS Score matches and it does shoot great. He likes the exta velocity, I'm here to tell you that it is more than competitive.
Danny Hensley is shooting both shorter and longer versions of the 30 BR and again, he is competitive.
I do not know who did the smithing. Maybe someone will chime in with more info.
I do know that they do work.
Redrock(Steve):
Our 30 WolfPups are basically a longer bodied .30Dasher with a shorter-than-a-Dasher neck. The same 4198 that we use in the 30BRs is what we've found to work best in the 'Pup @ 3140-3160 with a 117-118. They will go 3250+ with the same accuracy but the recoil gets to be lively in a 10 lb. Hunter rifle with a 2.25" fore end and an alum. buttplate.
I'd expect a 'true' 30Dasher (not a 30BR reamer run in 'long') to run in the 3140-3160 range with the 117-118's and scare 3200 with the .925 long 112-115's with similar accuracy as we see with the 30BR's @ 3020-3080 or so. In a 13.5 lb. VfS gun, a 30Dasher @ 3200 would be a pooch...just like Stan's 30 WolfPup is in his 13.5 lb. VfS gun.
Not enough recoil to raise the down on a maidens cheek......
Stan might happen to have a 30Dasher reamer.
Our 30 WolfPups are basically a longer bodied .30Dasher with a shorter-than-a-Dasher neck. The same 4198 that we use in the 30BRs is what we've found to work best in the 'Pup @ 3140-3160 with a 117-118. They will go 3250+ with the same accuracy but the recoil gets to be lively in a 10 lb. Hunter rifle with a 2.25" fore end and an alum. buttplate.
I'd expect a 'true' 30Dasher (not a 30BR reamer run in 'long') to run in the 3140-3160 range with the 117-118's and scare 3200 with the .925 long 112-115's with similar accuracy as we see with the 30BR's @ 3020-3080 or so. In a 13.5 lb. VfS gun, a 30Dasher @ 3200 would be a pooch...just like Stan's 30 WolfPup is in his 13.5 lb. VfS gun.
Not enough recoil to raise the down on a maidens cheek......
Stan might happen to have a 30Dasher reamer.
Steve, you could approach this a couple of different ways from my perspective.
Seating die is easy...a Wilson standard non-stainless die for the 30BR and just run the 30 Dasher chamber reamer in it.
For a f.l. die...Forster makes a f.l. die for the 6Dasher pn #005266. I have no idea where the body dimensions of this die are compared to a reamer, though. If it will work dimensionally, you can send it to JLC and have Jim convert it to a neck bushing setup and you'd be set. It's been my experience that Forster BR dies are pretty hit/miss on their dimensions. You could get sizing reamer made and have a Newlon die blank cut, also. Maybe the Harrel's have something too?
Seating die is easy...a Wilson standard non-stainless die for the 30BR and just run the 30 Dasher chamber reamer in it.
For a f.l. die...Forster makes a f.l. die for the 6Dasher pn #005266. I have no idea where the body dimensions of this die are compared to a reamer, though. If it will work dimensionally, you can send it to JLC and have Jim convert it to a neck bushing setup and you'd be set. It's been my experience that Forster BR dies are pretty hit/miss on their dimensions. You could get sizing reamer made and have a Newlon die blank cut, also. Maybe the Harrel's have something too?
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Danny Hensley could probably be competitive shooting a 30-30 in a lever action.
A
AVanGorder
Guest
...while standing up and using iron sights.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Possibly !
As to the original question the 30 BR is so darn good the way it is I don't really see the need for lengthening the case it might allow some different powder to be used but the standard 30BR is very good in a node around 2950 fps and the case can be stuffed with enough powder to go to the next node with very good results also.
R
rhaney2
Guest
Also,the recoil/jump went up with mine,the 30 dasher is easy to make but the standard 30 br is all i want to handle
Pete Wass
Well-known member
The only reason I can see
to increase the size of a 30 BR would be to make it shoot faster but does faster, in and of itself make the exercise worth doing? Will faster give one a bit of an edge in conditions or is it the barrel that gives one the edge? I heard some say last summer they were shooting very light loads of 4198 in the 30 BR and they were shooting well so what is the potential advantage? Simply burning more powder isn't one, as far as I can see.
to increase the size of a 30 BR would be to make it shoot faster but does faster, in and of itself make the exercise worth doing? Will faster give one a bit of an edge in conditions or is it the barrel that gives one the edge? I heard some say last summer they were shooting very light loads of 4198 in the 30 BR and they were shooting well so what is the potential advantage? Simply burning more powder isn't one, as far as I can see.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Pete Wass
Well-known member
wimps !
Things to Ponder
Thanks for the response, I currently shoot a 30br and the recoil with that is a non issue and Pete is correct as to why i'm thinking along these lines, in Iowa, SD and Ne, the winds seem never to be under 15mph and quite often blowing 20-30mph, so trying to figure out if a little more speed is going to give me a little forgiveness in conditions....Tough Call just exploring.
Thanks for the response, I currently shoot a 30br and the recoil with that is a non issue and Pete is correct as to why i'm thinking along these lines, in Iowa, SD and Ne, the winds seem never to be under 15mph and quite often blowing 20-30mph, so trying to figure out if a little more speed is going to give me a little forgiveness in conditions....Tough Call just exploring.
G
Gerry
Guest
30 br -dasher
If it isn't broke don't fix it.
finding the drift it a whole lot easier. The 30 Br has one really good advantage Barrel Life. I'm playing with the 6 dasher and after only a few hundred rounds with those slow powders the barrel is looking a bit fire cracked. [ 8 twist barrel]
That may happen with a 30 dasher also .
If it isn't broke don't fix it.
finding the drift it a whole lot easier. The 30 Br has one really good advantage Barrel Life. I'm playing with the 6 dasher and after only a few hundred rounds with those slow powders the barrel is looking a bit fire cracked. [ 8 twist barrel]
That may happen with a 30 dasher also .
jackie schmidt
New member
Question
After you shoot these things for a while, it dawns on you that, as Randy Robinette says, they tend to like velocities not exceeding 3000 fps. We have sure found this with our 30PP's, while 3050 is reachable with anything under 115 grns, around 2950 yields the best agging capability.
If you are already at an agging capability in the sub .200 range, why would you want to use more powder, which will surely add more recoil, more handling problems, and more of everything, except accuracy
For the purposes that this Forum represents, the 30BR is going to be hard to add too........jackie
After you shoot these things for a while, it dawns on you that, as Randy Robinette says, they tend to like velocities not exceeding 3000 fps. We have sure found this with our 30PP's, while 3050 is reachable with anything under 115 grns, around 2950 yields the best agging capability.
If you are already at an agging capability in the sub .200 range, why would you want to use more powder, which will surely add more recoil, more handling problems, and more of everything, except accuracy
For the purposes that this Forum represents, the 30BR is going to be hard to add too........jackie
30 Dasher
Redrock
I have shot what I will call a 30BRX for two years now,it is a 30 BR with the shoulder blown forward .080, to say whether it works or not, well I was runner up or Bridesmaid as I've been called to Allie Euber for SSOY in 2007 with it.
for a gain of @150 fps or more if you really push it with only 3 grs of powder more the increase in recoil is noticeable. is it an advantage, yes there are times it has enabled me to hold the ten ring when slower vel. likely would not have. In other words a line cutter with more velocity is probably a miss at slower speeds. The accuracy potential is the same as the standard BR if you are willing to absorb the recoil.
Why not a Dasher case? As has been said the dies can be a problem.
With the standard case just blown forward the Redding Type S bushing FL die works just fine . I did try the Dasher Shoulder for a brief time just for comparsion.
Originally I just ran the reamer in long just to see if it would still shoot acurrately and yes it did. Next I had a reamer ground to avoid the extra long freebore resulting from the standard reamer making the neck .080 long.
I'm shooting 7 ogive bullets so I had a little extra freebore ground into my reamer but in the long run I feel that I got too much, around .040 freebore would be just about right.
Does it have a place on the shooting line? It can and does work but in the evolution of things I am currently shooting a 30 Stubby and not the 30 Tubby, more about that later if anyone is interested.
good shooting
Danny Hensley
Redrock
I have shot what I will call a 30BRX for two years now,it is a 30 BR with the shoulder blown forward .080, to say whether it works or not, well I was runner up or Bridesmaid as I've been called to Allie Euber for SSOY in 2007 with it.
for a gain of @150 fps or more if you really push it with only 3 grs of powder more the increase in recoil is noticeable. is it an advantage, yes there are times it has enabled me to hold the ten ring when slower vel. likely would not have. In other words a line cutter with more velocity is probably a miss at slower speeds. The accuracy potential is the same as the standard BR if you are willing to absorb the recoil.
Why not a Dasher case? As has been said the dies can be a problem.
With the standard case just blown forward the Redding Type S bushing FL die works just fine . I did try the Dasher Shoulder for a brief time just for comparsion.
Originally I just ran the reamer in long just to see if it would still shoot acurrately and yes it did. Next I had a reamer ground to avoid the extra long freebore resulting from the standard reamer making the neck .080 long.
I'm shooting 7 ogive bullets so I had a little extra freebore ground into my reamer but in the long run I feel that I got too much, around .040 freebore would be just about right.
Does it have a place on the shooting line? It can and does work but in the evolution of things I am currently shooting a 30 Stubby and not the 30 Tubby, more about that later if anyone is interested.
good shooting
Danny Hensley
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Pete Wass
Well-known member
When we went to
faster powder in the 30-44's and the like, with lighter bullets we were able to find a good node in the 3100 area that seems as good as 2950. I think it may be an area where a tuner will save the day when the temp goes up though. Tuners; now there is an area that may give us MORE. Perhaps we haven't been to the "Upper Load Window" with 30's yet.
faster powder in the 30-44's and the like, with lighter bullets we were able to find a good node in the 3100 area that seems as good as 2950. I think it may be an area where a tuner will save the day when the temp goes up though. Tuners; now there is an area that may give us MORE. Perhaps we haven't been to the "Upper Load Window" with 30's yet.
Jackie,
''why would you want to use more powder, which will surely add more recoil, more handling problems, and more of everything, except accuracy"
I Also shoot a 10lb 30br in IBS Vhtr class and watching the HBR guys shoot bigger boomers in the 10lb range I think I can "Man Up" and handle another 3grains in a 13.5lb VFS.
It's definitely not a broken and needs fixed scenario, i'm just a tweeker by nature (racing backround) and if there is a return on investment:
Danny Hensley:
"for a gain of @150 fps or more if you really push it with only 3 grs of powder more the increase in recoil is noticeable. is it an advantage, yes there are times it has enabled me to hold the ten ring when slower vel. likely would not have. In other words a line cutter with more velocity is probably a miss at slower speeds. The accuracy potential is the same as the standard BR if you are willing to absorb the recoil."
It does seem to be worth it just still thinking about dies... I see that redding makes a 6 dasher fl bushing die wondering if I can just put a 30cal bushing in that die and now it is a 30dasher ...I know i'll give them a call just wondering if anybody has tried that??
''why would you want to use more powder, which will surely add more recoil, more handling problems, and more of everything, except accuracy"
I Also shoot a 10lb 30br in IBS Vhtr class and watching the HBR guys shoot bigger boomers in the 10lb range I think I can "Man Up" and handle another 3grains in a 13.5lb VFS.
It's definitely not a broken and needs fixed scenario, i'm just a tweeker by nature (racing backround) and if there is a return on investment:
Danny Hensley:
"for a gain of @150 fps or more if you really push it with only 3 grs of powder more the increase in recoil is noticeable. is it an advantage, yes there are times it has enabled me to hold the ten ring when slower vel. likely would not have. In other words a line cutter with more velocity is probably a miss at slower speeds. The accuracy potential is the same as the standard BR if you are willing to absorb the recoil."
It does seem to be worth it just still thinking about dies... I see that redding makes a 6 dasher fl bushing die wondering if I can just put a 30cal bushing in that die and now it is a 30dasher ...I know i'll give them a call just wondering if anybody has tried that??