30BR Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die ?

danyboy said:
................I measured my fired cases as best I can. I think I could just fax my measurements. If they showed on their internet site the different die measurements, I could choose the one I want without going through all this fired brass mailing and long wait.
Dan
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PATIENCE Glasshopper

There are a bunch of reasons why IMO it's advantageous for the Bros Harrell (or any other real die maker) to have your fired cases in hand.

#1, as you said "you measured as best you could". I could not be persuaded to make a die from your diagram.

#2, there are hundreds of opinions regarding "proper dies" out there in the world. With the cases in hand the Harrell's can make some informed decisions and make you a die that 100% WILL WORK even if it takes some back-and-forth phone calls or emails. Harrell's function is to make you happy. Different things make different people happy.

#3, there are hundreds of opinions involving "proper die usage" with the preponderance being about making sure your die touches down/bears on/cams over etc etc.... this sort of thing drives die makers mad. I don't envy todays die makers and barrel makers in a world where "send it back, it's defective" is the mantra. Often from folks who don't know "defective" from "reflective". The innernet is the best place to get up-to-the-minute-best information, and the absolute WORST as a repository of stupid information.


In simple fact, chambers vary in size. On 5 vital dimensions. And for proper full-length resizing all points must make contact at the proper time and exert the proper sizing effect by accomplishing proper containment. This requires a custom die which fits YOUR dimensions. If you or anyone else acquires an off-the-shelf die which fits the chamber correctly it's luck/serendipity/magick fairy dust.......... it's NOT repeatable.


I can right now order a die from Whidden by sending them a diagram...... I earned this right by ordering dies and NEVER ONCE complaining or sending a die back. I can draw a chamber on a napkin, text over a pic from my phone and they'll make a die knowing for absolute FACT that they will get their money, there will not be a complaint and I will NEVER send the die back because "it doesn't work"....

Unless they get the numbers wrong.

Which they haven't.

Harrell's

Whidden

Neil Jones

Hornady

These are four diemakers who've hit my numbers every time. Some of them are pus'd up..... for instance I once spent ten grand building stuff off a factory die from which I learned that factory dies CANNOT work in my world..... (MY WORLD!! 'may could work fine for others!) ........ and in consequence am living with and modifying a $500 set of custom dies after waiting a year for them. I try to explain this in a series of connected videos.

Here's a vid (one of about 6 on this subject) kinda' showing the mechanics of die fit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvH8orYBYvY




This episode called "The Revenant" is about trying to fix one of an entire series of HBR rifles which due to poor fitment was a complete failure due to clicking.... in other words I built three setups, all failures, cuz I'm a dumbass and cuz I lissened to the wrong people...... entirely unrelated except as history and 20min of your life you'll never get back :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nga-fWknUiM
 
FBecigneul said:
We build and sell the ring die that sizes the base only to .4375 and .4385 for PPC and to .4675 and .4685 for BR cases and they don’t bump the shoulder at all.
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I'm in a convalescence place following a broken femur and pelvic bone. As soon as I get back home, I'll double check my measurements and order one for sure. Any company name or I'd just have to send a PM to you ?
Thanks,
Dan
 
CYanchycki said:
Bushing dies. And the brass so called bushing is a gauge to use for measuring shoulder bump with your verniers. Slip it over the neck and measure before sizing and after. Be careful on the fired primer if you have some cratering. I measure slightly off center of the primer. Size down to the feel you want on bolt close and Mark that measurement down.
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Thanks
 
If I were going to buy another Harrell die

I would order a #3. Once cases get some age on them, the #2 wont push them back enough or at least mine never has. I have a small base 308 die I use to squish them but it adds another step to the reloading process. I've bought a couple of Hornaday dies over the past couple of years and like them. Wish they made a 30 BR die, I'd buy one.

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
I would order a #3. Once cases get some age on them, the #2 wont push them back enough or at least mine never has. I have a small base 308 die I use to squish them but it adds another step to the reloading process. I've bought a couple of Hornaday dies over the past couple of years and like them. Wish they made a 30 BR die, I'd buy one.

Pete
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Damn, you're telling me after going through the trouble of shipping 2 fired case to Harrell, paying $200 CAD for a die that's supposed to do the job that I should have asked for a #3 die while Harrell staff judged that a #2 one should be good enough ? The more it goes, the more I am starting to hate this caliber . Never seen such a picky caliber. Only other benchrest caliber I have experience with was 6BR and I never had trouble setting up for reloading, not even close to what I am finding out with this 30BR.
 
dannyboy: Respectfully, the only thing "hard" about your die situation is that you started off on the wrong foot from the beginning. Put it behind you and move forward.

You've been given some good advice. And some that needlessly complicates a pretty basic task. :rolleyes:

At the recent NBRSA Score Nationals, there were close to a hundred 30BR's (and their variants) on the line between the VFS and Hunter guns over a four day period. If getting a 30BR die that works is so insurmountable...how were all the people shooting 30BR's able to accomplish it? I sure didn't see anyone with case sizing issues. Hazarding a guess, I'd bet that 75% of those had a Harrel's die. Now add in all the hundreds and hundreds of 30BR's being shot all over the country (and in Canada). The numbers alone tell us that case sizing isn't some mountain that everyone is rolling a boulder up.

Use that Harrel's die and enjoy your 30BR! :cool:

Good shootin' and all my best to you as you recover. :) -Al
 
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Al Nyhus said:
^^^^^This in spades! -Al
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First, 6BR you can easily find brass so much less work to start with, no screwing around with brass forming.
Second, I got a Custom Lee Collet Die matching my 6BR chamber, 20-25 firings before having to full length size. Thought I could do the same with 30BR and got Lee to custom make me a Collet Die but forget it; 30 BR is much more of a HotRod; can't just Collet neck size and chamber brass on 2 nd firing. I know benchrest shooters who also use custom made LeeColletDie with 6PPC and can Collet neck size only 20-25 times without having to full length size.
IAM not perfect, I have been wrong before.
 
danyboy said:
First, 6BR you can easily find brass so much less work to start with, no screwing around with brass forming.
Second, I got a Custom Lee Collet Die matching my 6BR chamber, 20-25 firings before having to full length size. Thought I could do the same with 30BR and got Lee to custom make me a Collet Die but forget it; 30 BR is much more of a HotRod; can't just Collet neck size and chamber brass on 2 nd firing. I know benchrest shooters who also use custom made LeeColletDie with 6PPC and can Collet neck size only 20-25 times without having to full length size.
IAM not perfect, I have been wrong before.
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I've not heard of benchrest shooters neck sizing only for years. When I started down the road to build my 30br everyone said full length size every time. All the 6ppc and 6BR guys I talked to said the same.

As for dies most of the locals here have had good luck with off the shelf Redding dies some even use the non bushing dies.
I just bought a Harrels #3 for my setup but if it sizes too much they said they would exchange it.

I'm thinking you might be overthinking things. I'm also very bad for that.

Brass is easy to find as it's just 6br brass, but yes it needs worked. I figured my brass work consists of running through a expander mandrel , then a non bushing sizing die to make sure they are fairly straight the neck turn.

I will be putting a fireform barrel and action together down the road though.
 
danyboy said:
First, 6BR you can easily find brass so much less work to start with, no screwing around with brass forming.
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Surely, you knew you'd need to neck up 6BR cases and neck turn them? :confused:

danyboy said:
Second, I got a Custom Lee Collet Die matching my 6BR chamber, 20-25 firings before having to full length size. Thought I could do the same with 30BR and got Lee to custom make me a Collet Die but forget it; 30 BR is much more of a HotRod; can't just Collet neck size and chamber brass on 2 nd firing. I know benchrest shooters who also use custom made LeeColletDie with 6PPC and can Collet neck size only 20-25 times without having to full length size.
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Nobody has seen it all. But in my time shooting registered NBRSA and IBS events, I can't think of a single instance where someone was using a Lee Collet die on a real-deal Benchrest rig. -Al
 
Al Nyhus said:
Surely, you knew you'd need to neck up 6BR cases and neck turn them? :confused:



Nobody has seen it all. But in my time shooting registered NBRSA and IBS events, I can't think of a single instance where someone was using a Lee Collet die on a real-deal Benchrest rig. -Al
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Of course, I neck up 6BR brass by fire forming with pistol powder in a custom made 12ga to 30BR insert in a old 12 ga shotgun. Then I turn the necks with a Hornady neck turne, then trim the necks .
 
Welll,

I use cases a long time. I think most people retire brass after a year or two but I'm still using brass that is well over 15 years old soooooooo. Ergo, I need more push.

Pete
 
Turned out, #2 Harrell die works but I had better results with my Lee Collet die before, for 2 shots max before having to bump the shoulder. I had some249/250 and 250/250 score results with Lee Collet Die and now I am at 245-247/250.
Why would anyone suggest #3 Harrell die while Harrell figured I needed #2 die after I sent 2 fired cases.
 
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Pete Wass said:
Just order

a #3 and sell the one you have. Shouldn't hurt ya too bad.

Pete
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Don't understand if after sending Harrell 2 fired brass and that they figured out I needed a #2 die, why you suggest I should use a #3 die. What do you base yourself on ?
 
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