30BR Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die ?

[danyboy]

With my 6BR, I can Neck Size only for about 20-25 rounds without using either my Reddintg Body Die or a Redding Bushing FL sizing die.
For my 30BR, whole different story. This son of a gun caliber must be a Hot Rod compared to other calibers. After making the brass out of 6BR, Neck turning, trim the length and fireforming, I can only Neck Size only twice without feeling any resistance when closing the bolt. I figure if I Bodiy die the brass or FL bushing size it, I don't get as much accuracy as when neck sizing only but the bolt is much easier to close.
I would like to try the Forster Bushing Bump and Neck sizing die but they don't make any for 30BR. Would it work if I used a 6BR Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die with a 6BR forster bushing and get a machinist to enlarge the inside of the bushing to .324" ?

 

[rsmithsr]

you are backwards thinking to the CURRENT process used in br.
fl sizing with a shoulder bump of 1-2...now the fl is also slight

for both
wilson makes decent threaded press dies and the harrell's bros will furnish based on fired cases for an arbor press.

 

[alinwa]

.......
wilson makes decent threaded press dies and the harrell's bros will furnish based on fired cases for an arbor press........

I guess this is why "opinions differ"

IME only Harrell's offers hardened threaded dies in actual fitted sizes..... they'll write a program and CNC the dies to your spec using your fired cases, but only for PPC/BR/47 and some .308-based cases like The Mighty CreedMore

AFAIK Wilson just makes "a die" like Redding or whomever to an off-the-shelf spec altho they will customize their un-hardened arbor press dies (hand dies) for a fee. Ufortunately you can't actually size with them unless the reloading gods regard you as their fortunate son

 

[danyboy]

you are backwards thinking to the CURRENT process used in br.
fl sizing with a shoulder bump of 1-2...now the fl is also slight

for both
wilson makes decent threaded press dies and the harrell's bros will furnish based on fired cases for an arbor press.

Backwards thinking to the current process ? What do you mean ? FL sizing with shoulder bump of 1-2 ? Do you mean it's the wright way or the wrong way ?

 

[danyboy]

I guess this is why "opinions differ"

IME only Harrell's offers hardened threaded dies in actual fitted sizes..... they'll write a program and CNC the dies to your spec using your fired cases, but only for PPC/BR/47 and some .308-based cases like The Mighty CreedMore

AFAIK Wilson just makes "a die" like Redding or whomever to an off-the-shelf spec altho they will customize their un-hardened arbor press dies (hand dies) for a fee. Ufortunately you can't actually size with them unless the reloading gods regard you as their fortunate son

So, You can't actually size with these Custom Wilson dies 'unless the gods regard you as their fortunate son' ? I guess I'll give Harrel's die a try. I'll follow up on it.
Thanks

 

[Al Nyhus]

I figure if I Body die the brass or FL bushing size it, I don't get as much accuracy as when neck sizing only but the bolt is much easier to close.

Danny, this is the heart of the matter. The truth is you want to full length size the brass each firing to maintain consistent accuracy. I'm not aware of anyone shooting a 30BR that doesn't full length size after each firing.

Stay away from any sort of bushing/bump lash-up die that doesn't size the entire cases (Forster or Hornady).

Fortunately, the 'map' for 30BR dies has been well drawn for may years. You only need to follow it to get a good working die.

Dies like the Redding Type 'S' full length bushing die (#77524), the Wilson full length bushing die (#FLD30BR) or the Harrell's full length bushing dies will all do the 3 things you need a die to do:

1- Full length size the case
2- Properly move the shoulder back
3- Control the neck sizing with a bushing that floats

The trick, of course, is to get a die that works with your chamber dimensions. That brings us back to your chamber reamer, what the chamber measures and more importantly....what the fired cases measure.

This is where Harrell's shines as they offer different dies with different internal dimensions to match what your fired brass measures. They will also swap dies for another one with more/less sizing if you want something different. Their 'default' 30BR die if they don't have fired cases to check is their 2 or 2.5, which isn't a bad place to start. I like a little more aggressive sizing so for me, a 3 works. If the back end of the chamber is fairly large, the 3 might be too much.

If you have a Redding Body Die for the BR cases that sizes your brass the way you like, they can be converted to a bushing die by Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision. The Redding Body die for a 30BR is #75524. The only difference between it and the Body Die for any other BR cases is the diameter of the neck opening. So if you have a Redding 22BR or 6BR Body Die, they are perfect for modifying to a bushing die. The internal dimensions of the Redding Body Dies are the same as the full length bushing or non-bushing versions for the same cartridge so if a Redding Body Die sizes correctly, you can confidently order a F.L. Bushing Die of the same 'cartridge family' and it will size exactly the same. I have several Redding Body Dies that have been converted to bushing dies by Jim Carstenson.

The Wilson full length bushing die sizes exactly the same amount as the Redding 30BR F.L. Bushing Die.

So you really have three good choices in a full length bushing die. Are there any road blocks in sending in sending fired empty cases from Canada to the U.S.for Harrell's to measure?

Good shootin' -Al

 

[danyboy]

Danny, this is the heart of the matter. The truth is you want to full length size the brass each firing to maintain consistent accuracy. I'm not aware of anyone shooting a 30BR that doesn't full length size after each firing.

Stay away from any sort of bushing/bump lash-up die that doesn't size the entire cases (Forster or Hornady).

Fortunately, the 'map' for 30BR dies has been well drawn for may years. You only need to follow it to get a good working die.

Dies like the Redding Type 'S' full length bushing die (#71524), the Wilson full length bushing die (#FLD30BR) or the Harrell's full length bushing dies will all do the 3 things you need a die to do:

1- Full length size the case
2- Properly move the shoulder back
3- Control the neck sizing with a bushing that floats

The trick, of course, is to get a die that works with your chamber dimensions. That brings us back to your chamber reamer, what the chamber measures and more ,....what the fired cases measure.

This is where Harrell's shines as they offer different dies with different internal dimensions to match what your fired brass measures. They will also swap dies for another one with more/less sizing if you want something different. Their 'default' 30BR die if they don't have fired cases to check is their 2 or 2.5, which isn't a bad place to start. I like a little more aggressive sizing so for me, a 3 works. If the back end of the chamber is fairly large, the 3 might be too much.

If you have a Redding Body Die for the BR cases that sizes your brass the way you like, they can be converted to a bushing die by Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision. The Redding Body die for a 30BR is #75524. The only difference between it and the Body Die for any other BR cases is the diameter of the neck opening. So if you have a Redding 22BR or 6BR Body Die, they are perfect for modifying to a bushing die. The internal dimensions of the Redding Body Dies are the same as the full length bushing or non-bushing versions for the same cartridge so if a Redding Body Die sizes correctly, you can confidently order a F.L. Bushing Die of the same 'cartridge family' and it will size exactly the same. I have several Redding Body Dies that have been converted to bushing dies by Jim Carstenson.

The Wilson full length bushing die sizes exactly the same amount as the Redding 30BR F.L. Bushing Die.

So you really have three good choices in a full length bushing die. Are there any road blocks in sending in sending fired empty cases from Canada to the U.S.for Harrell's to measure?

Good shootin' -Al

Al,
I appreciate the clear as crystal answer to my question. My Redding bushing full length die either doesn't match my chamber or I just goofed somewhere. I got a score result of 239/250 8X when I was used to 249/250, 250/250 last year. Mind you this time I probably shouldn't have listened to the advice of a fellow competitor who suggested I should bump the shoulder of .004"; that probably didn't help.
Converting a body die to the bushing system, might as well get Harel to match me a bushing full length die to my chamber with 2 fired brass. I shouldn't have trouble getting them across the border for I sent Lee some to custom make a Lee Collet neck sizing die last year, unless Crusty the clown (Justin Trudeau) passed a law against it .
As far as which reamer was used for my chamber, I bought this Shillen prefit barrel from Mystic Precision in British Columbia which got it chambered by Dave Kiff who sent me 3 possible different drawings of what the reamer used looked like ! I measured my chamber at 1.510", .330" neck.
I'll contact Harrel this morning and if no obstacles for Canadians, I'll send them 2 fired brass.
Thanks a lot Al.

 

[Al Nyhus]

Good plan, Danny. Harrell's also supplies a slick little bushing to help you measure the amount of shoulder bump.

Keep us posted, sir. -Al

 

[Lee Martin]

You can also send fired cases to Whidden and they'll cut a set of matched dies. I did so on my .30 Stingray since it's a wildcat. The set they created were dead on.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

 

[danyboy]

You can also send fired cases to Whidden and they'll cut a set of matched dies. I did so on my .30 Stingray since it's a wildcat. The set they created were dead on.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Do Whidden dies work with Redding bushings ?

 

[danyboy]

Good plan, Danny. Harrell's also supplies a slick little bushing to help you measure the amount of shoulder bump.

Keep us posted, sir. -Al

Al,
Don't know how Harrell works but they sure are hard to get a hold of. Not even a fax number. I measured my fired cases as best I can. I think I could just fax my measurements. If they showed on their internet site the different die measurements, I could choose the one I want without going through all this fired brass mailing and long wait.
Dan

 

[TrxR]

Do Whidden dies work with Redding bushings ?

I'm not sure about the whidden dies but I think they do. I know they do in a Harrells die.

Harrell are great to deal with. I didn't have any fired brass to send them so I bought a #3 30br die and they said they would swap it out if needed once I got the rifle together. I've also bought rings and a rimfire tuner from them previously. Sadly they can't ship their tuners to Canada anymore , they have to go through a export/import business.

They shipped the tuner before they even had payment.

 

[TrxR]

Al,
Don't know how Harrell works but they sure are hard to get a hold of. Not even a fax number. I measured my fired cases as best I can. I think I could just fax my measurements. If they showed on their internet site the different die measurements, I could choose the one I want without going through all this fired brass mailing and long wait.
Dan
View attachment 25511

They are a small family run business from what I can tell. Whenever I got ahold of anyone they had just come in from the machine shop. I have talked to 1 brother and a brother in law I believe and it's the sister that does the bookwork I believe.

 

[Lee Martin]

Do Whidden dies work with Redding bushings ?

Yes, they take Redding bushings.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

 

[Al Nyhus]

If your .470 measurement at the back end is accurate, that's a pretty small chamber for Lapua cases........ -Al

 

[danyboy]

They are a small family run business from what I can tell. Whenever I got ahold of anyone they had just come in from the machine shop. I have talked to 1 brother and a brother in law I believe and it's the sister that does the bookwork I believe.

That explains it. I tried calling all day yesterday, won't take messages. If I could only get a fax number. I'll try again next week.

 

[danyboy]

They are a small family run business from what I can tell. Whenever I got ahold of anyone they had just come in from the machine shop. I have talked to 1 brother and a brother in law I believe and it's the sister that does the bookwork I believe.[/QUOTE

 

[danyboy]

If your .470 measurement at the back end is accurate, that's a pretty small chamber for Lapua cases........ -Al

Al,
Harrell was so busy yesterday, he wouldn't take phone calls. Meanwhile, I casted my Redding Body Die #75524, my Redding Bushing FL die #77524 to check the inside measurements. Also, a picture of the drawing of the reamer used I received. How do you mean when saying small chamber for Lapua cases ?

 

[danyboy]

If your .470 measurement at the back end is accurate, that's a pretty small chamber for Lapua cases........ -Al

Harrell is impossible to reach, phoned all day. Meanwhile, chamber casted Redding Body Die and Redding Bushing FL die.

 

[Al Nyhus]

Danny, if your dimensions of .466 on the back end if the Redding f.l. die are correct, that's different than the one I have. Mine is right at .470, which is what the Body Die also measures.

If it's really .466,back there, the sizing effort should be pretty significant.....