.308 Reamer/168gr BTHP

Z

Zebra13

Member
Gents,

I'm looking for recommendations on a .308 reamer set-up to shoot the Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition with the 168gr Sierra BTHP. Anybody have something that has worked out well for them? If so, can you provide a reamer print/print number/manufacturer, etc.

Thanks for your help,
Justin
 
Palma Bisley 150 rule. The std Bisley 150 rule .0917" lead will give a touch of jump w/FGMM and the std .3435" neck generally has plenty of clearance. Redding dies work well with this reamer if reloading.
 
WSnyder said:
Palma Bisley 150 rule. The std Bisley 150 rule .0917" lead will give a touch of jump w/FGMM and the std .3435" neck generally has plenty of clearance. Redding dies work well with this reamer if reloading.
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WSnyder,

Do you know how much jump we're talking about? And the rifle in question will be a tactical rifle...not a tacticool rifle...but an honest-to-God police long rifle and as such will be deployed in the muck, mire, sh!t and corruption. Any concerns that the Palma Bisley 150 is too snug for the intended application?

Thanks for the reply,
Justin
 
I do a lot of LE and military work. I've never had a complaint about accuracy or have seen the need to use anything other than a SAAMI reamer. It works every time, all the time.
 
WSnyder,

Thank you for the print.


Dave Tooley,

I appreciate your comments. It appears for the intended application, getting too wound up about the reamer is unnecessary.

Justin
 
Dave- how much neck clearance is there on a saami reamer? Seems like i looked at my jgs print and i couldnt believe it had that much but i cant remember
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Dave- how much neck clearance is there on a saami reamer? Seems like i looked at my jgs print and i couldnt believe it had that much but i cant remember
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Dusty,

I got .3442 on my SAAMI printout. The JGS #3566 has the same. The necks on my Gold Medal Match were about .3395.


Dave,

Did you keep the 1-45 lead angle on your SAAMI reamer?

Justin
 
Zebra13 said:
Dusty,

I got .3442 on my SAAMI printout. The JGS #3566 has the same. The necks on my Gold Medal Match were about .3395.


Dave,

Did you keep the 1-45 lead angle on your SAAMI reamer?

Justin
Click to expand...

I have several older 308 reamers, some have shorter- tighter throats and tighter necks. One a 2 degree lead. For the vast majority of my work I do keep the 1-45 lead angle. I use a box stock SAAMI 308 reamer. I measured the neck diameter on ammo I have and it ranges from .333"-.339" with M118LR being the largest and anything loaded in Winchester brass the smallest. The .3442" SAAMI spec is the safe play which is what I have to do for most of my work. As well as a 308 shoots to start with I don't see the need to tighten up neck or throat dimensions to improve performance. Over the last 7 years I've chambered thousands of barrels from 243 Win to 338 Lapua and I've come to conclusion that for working/hunting rifles our desire as target shooters to tighten everything up to "make them shoot" is not needed. Great barrels and concentric high quality chambers as well as good bullets are the key factors. On all other calibers I use a SAAMI body and customize the throat design while maintaining reliability. Accuracy and reliability are not polar opposites.
 
Don't overthink design

Dave Tooley said:
I have several older 308 reamers, some have shorter- tighter throats and tighter necks. One a 2 degree lead. For the vast majority of my work I do keep the 1-45 lead angle. I use a box stock SAAMI 308 reamer. I measured the neck diameter on ammo I have and it ranges from .333"-.339" with M118LR being the largest and anything loaded in Winchester brass the smallest. The .3442" SAAMI spec is the safe play which is what I have to do for most of my work. As well as a 308 shoots to start with I don't see the need to tighten up neck or throat dimensions to improve performance. Over the last 7 years I've chambered thousands of barrels from 243 Win to 338 Lapua and I've come to conclusion that for working/hunting rifles our desire as target shooters to tighten everything up to "make them shoot" is not needed. Great barrels and concentric high quality chambers as well as good bullets are the key factors. On all other calibers I use a SAAMI body and customize the throat design while maintaining reliability. Accuracy and reliability are not polar opposites.
Click to expand...

+1 on Dave's comments. Furthermore, tightening up dimensions - especially in the throat can be detrimental to overall accuracy depending on the circumstances.

Freebore diameter is an especially critical dimension, in that if it is reduced to a dimension that is too tight, it makes the barrel more sensitive to seating depth changes and more finicky to fouling accumulation. In fact, I've found (verified by extensive testing) that velocity spread from shot to shot is improved if the freebore diameter is at least 0.0008" or greater than nominal bore diameter.

Therefore, in the 308 Win. SAAMI or CIP configuration, stick with the standard specification freebore diameter, even though it is +0.002" over nominal bullet/groove diameter. This dimension sounds overly large, but is actually desirable for the intended application.

Keep in mind that every rifle can't be set up as a benchrest competition rig, where one can have the opportunity to fine tune seating depth and powder charge for the given weather conditions, and maintain barrel cleanliness under semi-controlled conditions.

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.
 
308 SAAMI 308 Match reamers..

For Hunting and Military applications chambers need to be a little looser, in the web .468-.471", neck (.340-.344") and throat (.310"). In most field applications the ammunition is not going to be reloaded. In military applications Lake City brass is quite an bit thicker. Accuracy expectations are 1-2 MOA.

For Target shooting Palma, Long Range Prone (any/any), and FTR:

Lapua Brass is the standard for Target Shooting it starts out .466-.468" in the web. Both the chamber and reloading dies are closer in dimensions so brass is not exercised as much in the firing and loading process.

Most of these shooters are going to reload and are shooting from 300-1000 yards.
Accuracy Expectations are .2 -.7 MOA.

The International Palma Shooters are restricted to a 155 grain bullet. To remain super sonic at 1000 yards it must be run 2950-3000 fps. The 155 grain bullet has a shorter bearing surface, the barrels are 30-32" in length and the twist is 1:12-14". The bores are generally considered tight .297-.298". The Palma reamers 95 Palma(Allen Warner) and Bisley 150(Mid Tompkins) both share a .3085" diameter leade.

Most of the FTR folks are shooting 185-215 grain bullets. They have a much longer bearing surface. They must run 2600-2750 fps to remain super sonic at 1000 yards. Again the competitive shooters are shooting 30-32" barrels with a twist of 1:9-1:12". The bores are considered loose .3000-.3008" The throats are .3085" and quite long to accommodate the long bullets.

Nat Lambeth
 
Dave, Greg, and Nathaniel,

Thank you for your responses and advice...it is duly noted. Reliability was first and foremost on my mind in re: the chamber, but I wanted to make sure I didn't leave anything on the table accuracy wise if reliability could still be maintained. You have set my mind at ease. And Kiff has .308 SAAMI reamers on sale to boot!

It's kinda funny some of the stuff we get wrapped around the axle about. Greg's comment about freebore diameter, for example. .002 over bullet diameter, a thou' a side, does seem big...until you really think about how small .001 is. I understand paying attention to the details, but sometimes I think we (me) have the tendency, this thread being an example, to lose perspective and worry about stuff that really isn't that big of a deal. I know practice is going to make me shoot far better than snugging up the freebore .001 on my .308. The old adage about the Indian and the arrow keeps coming to mind.

Pretty sure I learned some stuff from all of this.

Thanks again guys.

Justin
 
308 Benchrest Rig

Hello Guys,
I am wanting to build My first BR gun, I am coming over from the Tactical side. The gun will be used for informal competition so weight and rules are not important. ( Been getting beat up by My Buddies with these things) I am wanting to chamber a 308 win throated for a 230 Hybrid.
Some ideas i have are a Muzzle break/Tuner, and a five inch forearm or wider on the stock. I plan to use a 9 twist 30 inch HV Barrel. The big question I have is what about chamber dimensions? I know all builders have a 308 reamer, but there is bound to be a better option for BR work than what Us tac shooters use. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, LG
 
I would recommend something other than a 308 . the 6.5 creedmoore has a real advantage over the 308. You can reload or buy factory new ammo, same as the 308. The creedmoore will have better ballistics, hands down. with that said, the last 308 I chambered for a good friend of mine, I used a 95 Palma reamer, and then throated the free bore for the 168grain bullets. dam thing shoots lights out!! For myself, I have zero interest in a 308. Lee
 
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