300 RUM back country rifle.

S

swa

Guest
Ok im wanting to know if this rifle that im wanting to build will have accurate ballistics and knock down power for Mt Goats and sheep. Im wanting this rifle to be very light. id like to keep it around 6-6.5 pounds scoped. I'm wanting to use a Stillers Predator magnum action , and a Krieger #3 medium sporter barrel at 20-22'' I know that barrel length is not really suited for the 300RUM but I like that round and i need the rifle short, light and powerfull. The longest shot that i see this rifle making will be 350 yards. As i stated before this rifle will be mainly for Mt Goats and Sheep (Dall). The load i was thinking of using for this 300 RUM will be 94gr of H1000 topped by a 180 gr partition. Also any ideas on an Ultra light stock will be helpfull. So what do yall think about this possible rifle build? Thanks in Advance.
 
Is this meant to be a joke?

If it's not, the lightest stocks I know of are MPI.

Yer gonna' put yer eye out,
al
 
Yikes I hate to even think about that. I'm not sure the MPI stock could stand up to that amount of recoil. Scope bases would need many big screws and pinned in multiple places.

Since it appears you're reloading for this proposed monster you might consider the 30-375 Ruger case. Much better balanced in a short barrel. Feeding and function would be flawless.

Dave
 
A light rifle for Sheep and Goats starts out with a short action.

A short action 7mm will pack the mail past 350 yards using 140 grain Accubonds or Barnes bullets. 7-08 is sweet. For more power then the 7mm WSM.

Rings and bases can weight up in a hurry so I recommend Talley's once piece ring & bases.

A Leupold 4.5X14 scope and the Edge or MPI stock. Remember even the recoil pad can weight more than needed.

I think a 24" barrel is necessary just for balance and velocity.

Why not just buy a rifle from Jim Bordan?

The rifle cartridge and barrel length you are proposing is going to be so nasty and so hard to hold I doubt you will ever get a load worked up and most likely never get enough pratice to hit squat, let alone a sheep or goat at half that distance. Short light rifles are nice to carry but don't hold steady or point worth a darn.

Best wishes
 
Thanks for the info guys. The 7mm-08 sounds great. The youth version might be the ticket, with a good load worked up.
 
HOley KuhhRAPPP!!!! A guy who actually lissens! :)

I'm all about the 7-08 or even a 308. That said, IF you can tolerate the recoil, the step up would be to a 300WSM which is IMO simply the most versatile round in the world.....except for the 308 ;) and since I'm a 240lb concrete guy I have trouble tolerating the recoil of a lightweight 300WSM.

A 7-08 with Barnes TTSX's is a true sleeper, a Giant Killer.

al
 
Ok a little background on why I originally was wanting to go a 300RUM. I hunt Alaska about every year as he lives there and it's our brother time once a year as that's all I can get up there. IV been really impressed with the RUM as it has taken 2 bears for me. 3 years ago it took a nice black bear at 175 yards dropped it in its spot. I hit him at the base of his neck and exited out the bak door. Just last week it dropped a coastal Brown bear at 300yards it only ran 30 yards. It has taken a few deer and hogs. Well I took it on a Mt Goat hunt a few years back in SE Alaska and at 9.5 lbs and over 20 miles of hiking I said never again. It's my go to rifle for big game but just not any more for big hikes in rough country, lesson learned:) but after some reading I'm thinking the 7mm-08 or an 6.5X55 SW is going to be my goat/sheep hunt rifle. What do y'all think about the 6.5X55? Goats have got to be the toughest animals IV ever hunted. I love advice from y'all.
 
Weellll'p, I think the best hunting bullet for your application is the Barnes TTSX so let's look....

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tipped-tsx-bullet/

the 6.5 does a 120 which has a .442 G1 BC...120gr is a little light for tough-skinned muscular game like goats. You might not get blood out both sides.
the 7mm does the same thing with a 150 which is OK but running out of steam just a little.....


Now I've got a friend who hunts with a .270WSM using the 130's but he can drive them at warp speed which is where these bullets really shine. The 270WSM kinda' gets you the best of both worlds here, you get HONKIN' velocity which means energy-energy-energy and the TTSX's will take the heat without coming apart.... and you don't mind a liddle recoil.....the 270WSM will get you 50% more energy at not a horrendous cost in recoil and it WILL range a goat-sized animal and get you two holes from any direction. He uses it for antelope and deer, knocks 'em over like bowling for critters, he's even shot several elk with it. I would shoot a 270WSM light rifle and I hate recoil.

With your new information I'll cast a solid vote for the 270WSM. ONLY using the Barnes bullets, there is no other choice of bullet at that blistering speed. The development of the Tipped TSX has been a real Game-Changer in the hunting world. I'm a believer, and not just me, there are PH's over on The Dark Continent requiring them for light guns.

So there's my latest vote ;)

al
 
If it were 1950, Jack O'Conner would say ".270" There have been a lot of new chamberings since then, but for your purposes, no better ones.

A 6.5 pound .270 is no fun to shoot. You might get up with that guy who builds carbon fiber rifles, including the barrel. Even if you only need 4 shots per year (three to sight in/comfirm your sights) and one for game, a short barreled rifle is just no fun at all. Apparently, the carbon fiber barrel also takes some of the sting out of the recoil. Or so he claims.

When you've had you fill of killing things you can't eat, a camera is lighter, and you could take some stunning photos.

Believe in that part of the world, O'Conner would take a .375 H&H as second choice. That's where you really need that carbon fiber stuff. Use to get advertised in Precision Shooting.
 
I vote for the little 7mm-08.

I cold cocked a moose at 328 yards with one shot. It didn't take two steps...

154hornady-0.jpg
 
A RUM of any kind in that kind of configuration would be brutal, a 300 WSM is great if you want to stick with a 30cal. I really love the 270 WSM, most of mine are set up to shoot the 165gr Matrix ballistics VLD around 3050fps and does a super good job on elk and deer at long range, I have set up one in a lighter configuration and used 140 Bergers at 3300fps for whackn elk which they do very well at normal hunting ranges.
 
Talked to a guy probably 20 years ago who had a pair of Ultralight Arms rifles. One was a .280 Rem as I remember, but the other one was for sure a .338 Win Mag. He ordered it without a muzzle brake, but when it came it had a brake installed. He called Forbes and was told to unscrew the brake and shoot it, and if he still didn't want a brake to send it back and they'd fit an unthreaded, unbraked barrel. His comment was, "you'll notice it has a brake."

I cannot even imagine a .300 RUM with a short barrel. Recoil and noise would both be killers. Sheep and goats aren't any harder to kill than the moose Dennis shot with the 7-08, and another 22 yards wouldn't make that much difference in the outcome. The animals aren't killed by the noise, they're taken down with an accurate hit.
 
swa said:
Ok im wanting to know if this rifle that im wanting to build will have accurate ballistics and knock down power for Mt Goats and sheep. Im wanting this rifle to be very light. id like to keep it around 6-6.5 pounds scoped. I'm wanting to use a Stillers Predator magnum action , and a Krieger #3 medium sporter barrel at 20-22'' I know that barrel length is not really suited for the 300RUM but I like that round and i need the rifle short, light and powerfull. The longest shot that i see this rifle making will be 350 yards. As i stated before this rifle will be mainly for Mt Goats and Sheep (Dall). The load i was thinking of using for this 300 RUM will be 94gr of H1000 topped by a 180 gr partition. Also any ideas on an Ultra light stock will be helpfull. So what do yall think about this possible rifle build? Thanks in Advance.
Click to expand...


Well, as a sheep guide (and even been on a few Mt goat hunts), I can tell you that the 300 rum is WAY overkill for either bighorn or the thinhorn sheep at the distances you indicated. And it's a complete waste of powder in a 22" barrel. And, as others have said, it's brutal in a lightweight rifle-even with a muzzle brake (you didn't mention if brakes were an option and I don't think anybody asked you that yet).

Contrary to what some might believe, goats are not thick skinned nor are they very big. Most of what you see if fur. They are stocky and thick through the chest, but regular hunting bullets from non-magnum guns kill them all the time, no problems.

I have let friends and clients use my rifles to kill sheep at various distances with various bullets. Of them all, I have found Berger VLD's to be the best overall bullet for sheep. Accubonds are a close second-especially if distances are on the shorter side.

I have to disagree with Alinwa (yet one more time) that the 270WSM is a ultra fast round that is hard on bullets, and I also disagree that the only bullet that can hold up to it is the Barnes TTSX. Accubonds are bonded bullets that generally have higher bc's and don't come apart at any speed. If you absolutely must have an all copper bullet, Nosler also does a bullet called an E-tip that is almost identical to the TTSX except for the grooves. And, of all the WSM's, the 7mm WSM is ballistically superior unless you want to shoot bullets under 140 grains. Even at that, the 7 can use bullets in a much wider weight class which also makes it more versatile.

Velocity does not mean energy, bullet weight means energy. But you don't need as much of it as you might think for the distances you are intending to shoot.

The 7mm-08 is a sheep cartridge if there ever was one. You can't go wrong with it in a 20" to 22" barrel. Another one to seriously look at is the 6.5x47 Lapua shooting 130 or 140 grain Berger VLD's. Deadly accurate, plenty of power for sheep out to 500 yards, less recoil than the 7mm-08, and higher BC's in bullets that weigh 140 or less.
 
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I'm with Al. You got to be more specific.

Lean up against the concrete wall at a Sam's club. You've just been hit by a helluvalot of weight. Did it hurt?

Depending on whether you follow the standard formula or Elmer Keith's, velocity is at least half the energy equation.
 
goodgrouper said:
Well, as a sheep guide (and even been on a few Mt goat hunts), I can tell you that the 300 rum is WAY overkill for either bighorn or the thinhorn sheep at the distances you indicated. And it's a complete waste of powder in a 22" barrel. And, as others have said, it's brutal in a lightweight rifle-even with a muzzle brake (you didn't mention if brakes were an option and I don't think anybody asked you that yet).

Contrary to what some might believe, goats are not thick skinned nor are they very big. Most of what you see if fur. They are stocky and thick through the chest, but regular hunting bullets from non-magnum guns kill them all the time, no problems.

I have let friends and clients use my rifles to kill sheep at various distances with various bullets. Of them all, I have found Berger VLD's to be the best overall bullet for sheep. Accubonds are a close second-especially if distances are on the shorter side.

I have to disagree with Alinwa (yet one more time) that the 270WSM is a ultra fast round that is hard on bullets, and I also disagree that the only bullet that can hold up to it is the Barnes TTSX. Accubonds are bonded bullets that generally have higher bc's and don't come apart at any speed. If you absolutely must have an all copper bullet, Nosler also does a bullet called an E-tip that is almost identical to the TTSX except for the grooves. And, of all the WSM's, the 7mm WSM is ballistically superior unless you want to shoot bullets under 140 grains. Even at that, the 7 can use bullets in a much wider weight class which also makes it more versatile.

Velocity does not mean energy, bullet weight means energy. But you don't need as much of it as you might think for the distances you are intending to shoot.

The 7mm-08 is a sheep cartridge if there ever was one. You can't go wrong with it in a 20" to 22" barrel. Another one to seriously look at is the 6.5x47 Lapua shooting 130 or 140 grain Berger VLD's. Deadly accurate, plenty of power for sheep out to 500 yards, less recoil than the 7mm-08, and higher BC's in bullets that weigh 140 or less.
Click to expand...

A refreshing reply, seasoned with experience. I totaly agree.
I've shot quite a few Red Deer in Scotland with what wasn't even a legal caliber to use hunting deer. Never once did I or my stalker feel I was under gunned.

Dave
 
Charles E said:
I'm with Al. You got to be more specific.

.
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More specific about what? I thought external ballistics 101 was understood here? It takes a considerable increase in velocity to overcome a 10 grain weight increase. By loading up a 130 grain .277 bullet to maximum velocities (while still staying within safe pressure limits) it will not generate more muzzle energy than a 140 grain .284" 140 grain bullet going over 100 feet slower. By how Al phrased this: "you get HONKIN' velocity which means energy-energy-energy", it looked to me like he was saying velocity is king, but if you look at the equation for figuring energy, you can see it's not.

If energy is your goal, it's much easier to attain with bullet weight than velocity. If a bear is charging you, common sense should tell you to grab the 45-70 GVT instead of the 22-250.

Take a 300 grain bullet at 2000 fps and run it against a 40 grain bullet at 5000 fps and see which has more muzzle energy.;)

Then there is bullet construction, downrange energy retention, bc's, shot placement, etc etc..to determine which is the most LETHAL bullet and caliber. Velo is just one veggie in the salad.

Rather than advise someone to crank up the velocity of an overbore cartridge (which won't attain top speeds in a 22" barrel anyway) with a bullet that is stout enough to handle that "warp speed", I take the other route and tell them to use a more balanced cartridge with a slightly heavier bullet (designed for medium sized game) to maximize expansion ratios in the shorter barrel the OP wants to use.

Incidentally, the last 270 wsm I tuned liked 130 grain Berger VLD's going 3250 fps with 61 grains of RL17. That gun has since killed a bull elk, a big mule deer, and a giant bodied Saskatchewan whitetail deer with perfect bullet performance on all three.
 
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Dave Tooley said:
A refreshing reply, seasoned with experience. I totaly agree.
I've shot quite a few Red Deer in Scotland with what wasn't even a legal caliber to use hunting deer. Never once did I or my stalker feel I was under gunned.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thank you Dave. How do those red deer taste? I've never tried one.
 
Energy equals mass in grains times velocity squared divided by the constant 450400

Therefore the 270WSM with 130's @3250 has 3049 ftlb energy whereas the 140 @3150 has 3084

A 300gr bullet at 2000= 2664 ftlb

A 40gr bullet at 5000= 2220 ftlb


My point is that felt recoil is a factor when using a light rifle......... a huge factor, and since felt recoil is a factor of acceleration over time you can push a light bullet faster and maintain acceptable energy levels while reducing felt recoil.

Big bullets kick.

Hard.

IMO these tougher metal bullets have changed a paradigm which has stood for hundreds of years, the FACT that weight is better than velocity. With conventional bullets I will agree that weight is paramount but with the newer, tougher bullets one actually can hunt with rounds that kick like varmint rounds. I kinda' like this option ;) It's changed me from a "338 is minimal" guy to a "with these bullets you can use velocity to make your energy" guy.

al
 
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