Exactly what is that? Are those 30-30 cases? Maybe 30-40 Krag. Why no headstamp? Who made them? What size primer? Details on the bolt please.
Michael
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30-30 600 yard build
- Thread starter mturner
- Start date
Exactly what is that? Are those 30-30 cases? Maybe 30-40 Krag. Why no headstamp? Who made them? What size primer? Details on the bolt please.
Michael
jackie schmidt
New member
That's a bolt for a semi auto M-1 Garand, I think.
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jackie schmidt
New member
I went to the UPS Terminal shipping terminal, and not even they can ship it.
Here is the sign they have posted.
http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21987&stc=1&d=1549482690
I thought it would be as simple as paying the HazMat fee
Sorry.
Here is the sign they have posted.
http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21987&stc=1&d=1549482690
I thought it would be as simple as paying the HazMat fee
Sorry.
Attachments
That or a M1A/M14 is correct. Wonder if Nez is planning on feeding rimmed cases through a semi-auto.
Michael
Worst case is a $250,000 dollar fine. You should have that kind of pocket change in your night stand drawer.
Michael
NezRongero
Member
It is an M14 bolt, by Bula Forge up in Cleveland. They tooled up to manufacture forged M14 type receivers and parts to go in the rifle.
As far as the brass, Butch got them sometime back, do not recall from whom and who made them.
Just used the bolt to prop the brass so I can take pictures. I am thinking about doing a 6 Dasher M1a this summer.
As far as the brass, Butch got them sometime back, do not recall from whom and who made them.
Just used the bolt to prop the brass so I can take pictures. I am thinking about doing a 6 Dasher M1a this summer.
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Velocity testing concluded
I have finished with the velocity testing for now. Still using the 168 gr. Berger Hybrid out of a 28" barrel. Temperature was 51 degrees. Four powders were tested, and three of them produced good velocity. The burn rate of the Vihtavouri N530 and Accurate 2460 was perfect. The IMR4166 ran out of room at 38 gr. and didn't make much velocity. The best single base powders seem to be IMR8208, Benchmark, Norma 201, and IMR4320. The best double base powders seem to be N530 and AA2460. They are the best when it comes to velocity. No accuracy testing has been done. If you want to settle for 2700 fps., most all of the powders tested will get you there.
Michael
N530
36 gr. - 2677
38 gr. - 2795
39 gr. - 2816 (velocity per grain leveling off)
AA2460
39 gr. - 2741
40 gr. - 2793
41 gr. - 2844
N201
37 gr. - 2674
39 gr. - 2789
IMR4166
38 gr. - 2603
Velocity comparison for Jackie between H4895 and N530 both at 38.0 gr.
N530 - 2795
H4895 - 2726
I have finished with the velocity testing for now. Still using the 168 gr. Berger Hybrid out of a 28" barrel. Temperature was 51 degrees. Four powders were tested, and three of them produced good velocity. The burn rate of the Vihtavouri N530 and Accurate 2460 was perfect. The IMR4166 ran out of room at 38 gr. and didn't make much velocity. The best single base powders seem to be IMR8208, Benchmark, Norma 201, and IMR4320. The best double base powders seem to be N530 and AA2460. They are the best when it comes to velocity. No accuracy testing has been done. If you want to settle for 2700 fps., most all of the powders tested will get you there.
Michael
N530
36 gr. - 2677
38 gr. - 2795
39 gr. - 2816 (velocity per grain leveling off)
AA2460
39 gr. - 2741
40 gr. - 2793
41 gr. - 2844
N201
37 gr. - 2674
39 gr. - 2789
IMR4166
38 gr. - 2603
Velocity comparison for Jackie between H4895 and N530 both at 38.0 gr.
N530 - 2795
H4895 - 2726
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NezRongero
Member
NezRongero
Member
Poor Bolt Design
I have delivered the rifle to Nez. We put about 30 rounds through the gun, mainly seeing which powders would be the most usable to achieve velocities between 2700 fps and 2800 fps. The highest velocity achieved was 2876 fps. with AA2520 and 168 gr. Hybrids. That load resulted in a slight click on extraction, so I'm still thinking we just need to settle on 2800 fps. as maximum. At this point, we have achieved full 308 Winchester performance from a 30-30, so we were very pleased.
Now for the bolt design issue. When I received the rifle from Nez, it had been fitted with a 6.5-284 barrel. The barrel had the typical coned feed ramp that feeds so nice. The bolt had the matching angle on the lugs, but the angle stopped at bolt body diameter of .700", leaving a flat on the end of the bolt head. If you match the contour of the bolt head on the back of the barrel, it will be safe, but you lose the feed ramp, and defeat the whole purpose of a coned bolt. In this case, the cone shape had been cut all the way into the chamber. This left .203" of case head sticking out of the chamber, out of .210" total case head thickness. That's scary to me.
I re-machined the bolt head to bring the cone all the way into the bolt face diameter. By doing this, the case head is only sticking out about 137". I spoke with Mike Bryant about this matter, and he told me that he has had to deal with the same situation in the past. He also modifies the bolt head the same way I did for safety and maintaining a feed cone on the barrel. The gunsmith who had fit the 6.5-284 barrel is a well know shooter and gunsmith, so please choose your gunsmith wisely. Your life could depend on it. After the conversations I have had with Mike Bryant at the Cotton Ball match in Lubbock, over the phone, and seeing his work in person, I highly recommend his work. I have attached photos and drawings.
Michael
I have delivered the rifle to Nez. We put about 30 rounds through the gun, mainly seeing which powders would be the most usable to achieve velocities between 2700 fps and 2800 fps. The highest velocity achieved was 2876 fps. with AA2520 and 168 gr. Hybrids. That load resulted in a slight click on extraction, so I'm still thinking we just need to settle on 2800 fps. as maximum. At this point, we have achieved full 308 Winchester performance from a 30-30, so we were very pleased.
Now for the bolt design issue. When I received the rifle from Nez, it had been fitted with a 6.5-284 barrel. The barrel had the typical coned feed ramp that feeds so nice. The bolt had the matching angle on the lugs, but the angle stopped at bolt body diameter of .700", leaving a flat on the end of the bolt head. If you match the contour of the bolt head on the back of the barrel, it will be safe, but you lose the feed ramp, and defeat the whole purpose of a coned bolt. In this case, the cone shape had been cut all the way into the chamber. This left .203" of case head sticking out of the chamber, out of .210" total case head thickness. That's scary to me.
I re-machined the bolt head to bring the cone all the way into the bolt face diameter. By doing this, the case head is only sticking out about 137". I spoke with Mike Bryant about this matter, and he told me that he has had to deal with the same situation in the past. He also modifies the bolt head the same way I did for safety and maintaining a feed cone on the barrel. The gunsmith who had fit the 6.5-284 barrel is a well know shooter and gunsmith, so please choose your gunsmith wisely. Your life could depend on it. After the conversations I have had with Mike Bryant at the Cotton Ball match in Lubbock, over the phone, and seeing his work in person, I highly recommend his work. I have attached photos and drawings.
Michael
Attachments
Butch Lambert
Active member
Sorry I missed this post. These are Federal unstamped brass. I have a lot of it in different calibers. They came from the estate of Red Cornelison. He had a great relationship with Federal several years ago. Red did as tremendous amount of wildcat cartridges.
NezRongero
Member
Michael,
Thank for taking on this project, and a big Thank You for fixing a potential kaboom due to case failure.
I am fine tuning the brass as you suggested, will post group test results when available.
Nez
Can someone explain to me what is to be gained by using a 30-30 case to push a 168 at 27-2800 for 600 yds? When you can run a 110 SMK at 2900+ out of a 6br Imp. both bullets have the same BC.and at 600 the conditions have a greater affect on them than raw accuracy but the 110 is shooting in the low .1's @ 100..... jim
NezRongero
Member
Be different. Anybody can build a 6BRXYZ
Butch Lambert
Active member
Jim, what will you do at a match and a 30-30 kicks your butt?
NezRongero
Member
Jim,
I was quite in a hurry when I responded. The 6MMs have shown some impressive performances in the line. Along with the 6.5s, they are a dominant force on the 600 yard line. However, when you put a sling on and shoot on your elbow, the game changes. Here is an example, Stacey is a multiple range record holder at Bayou Rifles with his bolt gun, a 6mm with unlimited power scope, but a lowly 223 shooter, with 20 inch barrel, 4.5X scope took him to a good match. In fact out Xed him. Remember the .224 bullets are nowhere near the BC of the 6s.
" ANY RIFLE/ANY SIGHT Tournament Congratulations to STACEY TAMULINAS for winning the ANY RIFLE/ ANY SIGHT Tournament with a 1191-59X
SERVICE RIFLE Tournament Congratulations to GREG TROXELL for winning the SERVICE RIFLE Tournament with a 1190-62X.
Back to the 30-30. Michael managed to showcase the capability of the 30-30 in short range stool shooting in both group and score shooting. His successes with the 30-30 inspired me to have him build me one. I don't have the know how nor the correct reamer for the 30-30, Michael does, so I asked him if he were interested in doing my project. I am glad he did. Now, if I could even get close (even twice or three times as large) to the group he shot with his 30-30 in testing, I would be happy to shoot it either sling or F Class.
At the end of the day, you know the saying about the Indian and his arrow.....
Attachments
Butch Lambert
Active member
Butch, First it ain't going to happen..... Second when the wind hits that baby it will go for a ride, I hope to see the match reports with a sub 1" agg. and maybe Bart better get ready when it shoots in a sub .3 five shot 50... Jim
When you said 600 I automatically was 600 BR., now I see you are a sling shooter. I have been there but now I can't do that anymore, so have fun with it I still think you you would be better off with a 6mm, 2-3" groups are common at 1000 now..... jim