.223 or .308?

T

TrxR

New member
I am a newbie looking to get into shooting and want to eventually work my way up to 1000yd shooting. I will be doing benchrest and some F/TR but it will all be for fun and not serious competition. I had kinda made up my mind on a .308 as one of my previous post was about. But I was recently told that a .223 would make a great gun to learn with. What do you guys think? I know some of you are going to say 6BR but I want to stick to some more common shells first. What are the pros and cons of these two guns? How far are they going to reach out before I am going to need something else? I have been contemplating the Savage F/TR , Savage model 12 Long range Varmint and the Remington 700 Varmint.

Also any suggestion on optics would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
223

223 pro's are that is cheaper to buy and reload cartridges for. It also has a softer recoil and tends to shoot better than a 308 factory gun out to about 300 yards in light wind conditions. It would be a great caliber to get unless you plan on using the gun as-is to shoot beyond 300 yards with wind. Some people regularly shoot 223's out to 600 yards with great success.

I would suggest the Savage 12 BVSS or the 12 Long Range Precision Varmint for this first step ( http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm and http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm ). The BVSS comes with a 1:9 twist barrel will let you shoot the 69 gr Sierra MatchKing very well, but would get marginal with heavier bullets. The stock is one of the great factory designs and will serve you well for a long time even when you re barrel the rifle. A fellow named Larry Racine ( http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm )can modify the stock at some point to add an adjustable cheek piece, a three position butt plat and cooling vents in the forearm as well as a hand stop rail under the forearm (these mods are very similar as to what the Savage Palma rifle comes with).

The downside of the 12 BVSS is that it does not use the new Savage LRPV action which is really a great one or have a 1:7 twist barrel. The down side of the 12 LRPV is that the stock is not high enough in the comb to comfortably shoot from the prone position with a scope and I know of no way to modify it to do so other than a add-on cheek piece. The upside is the 1:7 twist barrel which will allow you to shoot bullets up to 80 grains out to farther distances in higher wind. I have one of these and had to change stocks to get comfortable. Great action and trigger! Stock is a minus as far as I am concerned.

Another possibility is to build a Savage with the action, an pre-chambered barrel and an aftermarket stock such as from Sharp Shooter Supply ( http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/CenterfireStocks.html ). The cost will be only slightly higher and you will be getting a MUCH better start-up gun.

308

308's pro's are better ballistics out past 300 yards out to 1000 yards. I would recommend the 12 BVSS as the barrel twist is 1:12 and will stabilize a 175 gr Sierra MatchKing out to 1000 yards. The Savage 12 FTR, in my opinion and that of some other local shooters, has a terrible stock with an afterthought plastic cheek piece. The same recommendation applies to building your own Savage as I recommended for the 223.

Hope this helps and does not confuse the issue. I am sure others will have other ideas and may feel differently than me. But I have a number of Savages and really like them. I am classified as a Master by the NRA in Long Range competitions.

George
 
So basically what you are saying is that the .308 would be a better gun from 300 and out. Now would I be out of my league to start with a .308 ? Would I be better off starting off with the .223 and work my way out to 5-600 yards then upgrade?

Also are there any good websites for pricing up actions and barrels if a person wanted to put one together with a aftermarket stock?

Thanks
 
TrxR said:
So basically what you are saying is that the .308 would be a better gun from 300 and out. Now would I be out of my league to start with a .308 ? Would I be better off starting off with the .223 and work my way out to 5-600 yards then upgrade?

Also are there any good websites for pricing up actions and barrels if a person wanted to put one together with a aftermarket stock?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey TrxR, I see you made it over here from yellowbullet:D
I think you would be better off to start with the 308. Try and find the factory savage target gun in 308,or the xr-100 remington 308 that gander mountian offered. You won't go wrong with either choice.
You can also buy the remington sps varmit and add a good stock to it. Maybe a Shehan tracker?
 
Ya I made it over here . Honestly I still find it a bit weird being on a non automotive forum. I gues I am just a bit out of my element as of yet. But the people here seem very knolagable , helpful and freindly.
 
.223
Pros:
  • Cheaper to shoot.
  • Less recoil.
  • Exterior ballistics comparable to a .308 out to ~900 yards.
  • Can be competitive out to 1000 with specialized loading and chambering.
Cons:
  • Fewer suitable rifles (1 in 8" twist or faster barrel needed, 1 in 7" preferred by some).
  • Factory ammo typically suitable for 900 yards and less.

.308
Pros:
  • More suitable rifles available as a factory product.
  • 1000 yard capable match ammo commercially available.
  • Easy to find rifle w/ suitable rifling twist (1 in 12" works fine).
Cons:
  • More recoil - about 3-4x that of a .223.
  • Ammunition is more expensive to load - or buy.
You decide. If you're doing most of your shooting at 600 yards and less - strongly consider the .223.

Savage's F-T/R rifle is available in .223 as a special order item. The twist rate would be 1 in 8" or faster, I think.
 
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optics

Spend as much on your optics as you do on your rifle. You will not be sorry later to have owned a fine scope from the start.
 
So I am sorta leaning toward the .223 for now as I can always have it rebarreled a few years down the rad to a .308 or 6BR correct? It will probably take me awhile to get good enough to go beyond 600yards anyways. Which twist would be better? This gun is one ive been eyeing http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm and its available as a 1 in 9" and 1 in 7".

Any recomendations on the optics? Any brand I should strongly consider or stay away from?

Thanks
 
A 308 uses a different bolt face diameter. Easy fix with a savage, a new bolt is needed with a Remington. I use my 223 out to 600 and give up little to nothing against the 308s except when trying to knock down La rue steel targets. A 1x8 twist is needed and you need to learn to reload so you have good long range ammo, (80 gr. bullets). I have no experience with the 90 gr. ammo and would consider it only for advanced re loaders. I think the Tika varmint comes with a 1x8 twist.
 
Is there a specific reason for the tikka? I see it only has a 23" barrel compared to the 26" that the Savage and Remington has? Also with the tikka how difficult is it to upgrade to say a .308 or 6BR a few years down the road if I wanted?

Thanks
 
The tikka would be harder to change to a 308 then the other two. I don't know if different bolts are available from the factory or if the original could be opened up. If the savage is available in a 1x7 that would be my choice. I use a rem with a 1x8 rock creek barrel and I am very pleased. The savages shoot very good too and are easy to change the caliber later if you want. The 1x7 will shoot the 80 gr. bullets with no problem for longer ranges. On calm days I shoot mine at 1000 yds and hold my own with local shooters.
realm-aw said:
Spend as much on your optics as you do on your rifle. You will not be sorry later to have owned a fine scope from the start.
Click to expand...

Well said or maybe spend more.
 
Tikka has a super smooth action, accurate barrel with 1-8" twist for 75-80gr. bullets where the 223 shines. The 23" barrel is just fine, my ar 24" shoots 80 a-max at 2950 no problem. Converting it to 308 or 6br: new barrel and open up the bolt face, simple tasks for gunsmiths
 
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