222 vs 223

grouper

I think I'll excuse myself from this thread since you are resorting to ad-hominem attacks without really knowing anything about me. Since you are from Utah I assume that we have shot against each other but I don't know for sure. I'm going out on a limb by saying that I probably started shooting Benchrest years before you did. I don't need to "study", "do my research", or "attend a BR match". I've done all of that. It's been an interesting thread.

Ray
 
Ray is smart enough not to be drawn into a pissing match. Ray has one of the most extensive cartridge collections any where. His specialty is the wildcats. He does know the history of the cartridges.
Butch
 
Cheechako said:
grouper

I think I'll excuse myself from this thread since you are resorting to ad-hominem attacks without really knowing anything about me. Since you are from Utah I assume that we have shot against each other but I don't know for sure. I'm going out on a limb by saying that I probably started shooting Benchrest years before you did. I don't need to "study", "do my research", or "attend a BR match". I've done all of that. It's been an interesting thread.

Ray
Click to expand...

Sorry Ray. I didn't know that point by point debate was being "attacked" in your book. Clarification of the facts was in order and it's up to you whether you want to ignore them or not but don't suppose you can bring up the points you chose and not be questioned by this community. I think 95% of people here would agree that there is something to case design in the ppc even if they can't explain why.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Ray is smart enough not to be drawn into a pissing match. Ray has one of the most extensive cartridge collections any where. His specialty is the wildcats. He does know the history of the cartridges.
Butch
Click to expand...

Butch,
Since when did a civilized debate and clarification of some history become a "pissing match"?
 
222

With all the flash new stuff around these days it would be interesting to see what a 222 could do.But alas my funds don't stretch that far,so I go with the odds.If I was a rich man I would give the old deuce a go again.The 6X47 will be my hunting gun when I get around to it old barrel use & culled booollets from my 6 ppc will get a use.Jim:eek:
 
I think 95% of people here would agree that there is something to case design in the ppc even if they can't explain why.
Click to expand...
It kind of depends on what you mean. I think there is *something* to case design, and I'll bet Ray does too, but it is on the order of 1%, 2%, something like that. As with any small variable, the larger one's dwarf it.

I believe what is successful depends more on what powders are available at a particular time -- powder is a large factor. Keeping to the topic that started this thread, given the different capacities of the .222 and .223, which one is more "inherently accurate" will depend on just which powders they "inherit." A fullish case with a good, consistent rise time on the pressure curve will, day in & day out, usually shoot better than a case with lower loading density, or with a case/powder combination that gives less consistent pressure rise.

All I have to say on the topic.
 
I believe what is successful depends more on what powders are available at a particular time -- powder is a large factor. Keeping to the topic that started this thread, given the different capacities of the .222 and .223, which one is more "inherently accurate" will depend on just which powders they "inherit." --quote


Well it would make sense that in a combustion, the combustible would be pretty important too now wouldn't it! ;)
 
Ratios ?

A possible reason for one chambering having an advantage over another could be the ratio of powder to the size of the bullet. Chamberings that are called "Overbore" seem to suggest this. It appears in the case of the 30-BR that there is a great efficiency, for lack of a better term, in the combination of bullet size and case capacity. It seems the more compact one can make this ratio with the correct components, the better the rersults. Does this make any sense? Also Size seems to matter here too. Fatter cases seem to make better "Lovers".
 
One can surely shoot whatever one wants, within the rules. I didn't read every line of the above posts, so excuse me if this is a repeat. Obviously, the 6PPC allows many to be one caliber, and in many cases, one rifle competitors in all three bag gun classes. If one intends to shoot the same matches, choosing a .22 automatically means that one has to be a two caliber shooter, and since the best small 6 is the PPC which most would agree is at no disadvantage to any .22, the question becomes why go to the extra expense and trouble of a second caliber? If the best small 6 was still a 6 x 47, I am sure that there would be many more running two calibers.

A little anecdotal info for the .222 side, I believe that 4 (+-) years ago Dennis Thornbury won a light heavy two gun, at Visalia, against an excellent field, with a sleeved XP100 in .222 that he pulled out of the back of the gun safe. No doubt, the rest of the field were 6PPCs driven by some of the best.

As to the .223, Lapua no longer makes small flash hole brass for that caliber, as they once did, but I bet that if some of the current brass' flash holes were swaged down, as mentioned in the recent 30-30 thread, and the proper reamer/ FL die combination obtained, I shouldn't be surprised if excellent and competitive results were the result. I think that we sometimes forget that .aggs. have improved since the 6PPC took over, and it has yet to be established what if any effect the changes that made these improvements possible would do for a fully built .223. Perhaps someone with a large R&D budget will become curious and give it a try, if not we will never know.
 
goodgrouper said:
Butch,
Since when did a civilized debate and clarification of some history become a "pissing match"?
Click to expand...

Mr. Goodgrouper, would you believe many fiery gentleman think that everything what happen to differ is a fight.

Gentleman, would you believe Mr. Butch Lambert can possibly be one of those fiery gentleman?

Con
 
lots of talk...but i don't think i saw anyone say they have tried the 223 in a true br configuration ? i am guesiing that some work has been done in the past...but i do not see any supporting posts ?

my ar15 is close, but it is only a 250 neck and while i did turn the necks it is not a true neck turn chamber.

any of you bolt gun guys done any work here ??

mike in co
 
222 vs.222

I believe that Stan Buchtel shot a 223 in competition with good result. See the Benchrest Shooting Primer. He was a long time proponent of the long skinny "Duece" cartridges.
 
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