.204 Ruger

F

fergi

Guest
I have a “trued” 700 Remington action with a #5 Hart barrel in .204 Ruger. I’m basically happy with the rifle since it will consistently shoot .75” groups. My problem is that within these .75” groups are two distinct .2” groups. I’ve heard that this can be caused from any number of things but I trying to eliminate the easy things first. I’ve tried Berger 35gr bullets with Reloader 10x and 40 gr Hornady V-Max bullets using H322. I’ve tried various seating depths and powder charges. They all shoot pretty well but they all have the tendency to have two separate groups within each group. Has anyone had a similar experience. I’m open for suggestions.
 
Repeating dual points of impact sounds like a bedding problem. If the POIs are horizontal and always on the same range it could be the wind. Take a look at the wind first and then move to the more expensive mechanical suspects in the order of aggravation.
 
Bedding, scope,bullets. If you have variance on the ogive your seater could be contacting the bullets in a different place higher/lower on the ogive in effect causing bullets to have a different seating depth. but .75 is alot. Do you sort your bullets /
 
Thanks for your input Wilbur. I'm not a benchrest shooter and have not had a lot of experience or any training with how to judge the wind. I just try to wait for a calm period between shots. The groups are usually horizontal and .75 may be a bit of an exaggeration, .5 may be more like it. I try to make sure that my sight picture is the same each time and the parallax is adjusted correctly.

Larry, I have not sorted the bullets. I do have an accurate electronic scale from Sinclair. How should the bullets be sorted?

Thanks again for you time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You need a bullet comparator like the Stoney point tool and I believe Sinclair has one out now too. After you load ammo go over them all with the tool and see if they all are the same seating depth. I had done this before and got up to .004 difference. I thought my seater stem was moving. I later discovered that the bullet points were a little different causing the stem to contact them in different places. I have never worked with bullets that tiny but if i had doubts I would put the next caliber smaller insert in the tool and measure the bullets from this point to the base and group them in .001 difference to shoot together. It will take a little finesse to get consistent results with the calipers. There is at least one tool I know of made to do this specifically but i have never heard of anyone making one for a 20.
 
Thanks Dusty,

My range has one flag at about 50 yards on the 100 yard range.

Do you know of a good book on how to shoot in the wind?
 
Thanks Larry,

I'll check with Sinclair on the bullet comparator.
 
Small groups, watch the wind...

http://extremerifleaccuracy.com/


Skim bed your action from behind the recoil lug to the tang. Use plenty of release agent.

One range flag is better than none... But with minimal effort you can build cheap EFFECTIVE wind flags from Mikes suggestions in his book.

Sounds to me you and your rifle has potential.

The little .17's and .20's... Heck, all bullets are moved quite a bit in even light conditions. Just that the little guys can move more...

I'll post a pic of two groups from this weekend of shoot'n my beloved little .20-222. To explain the potential of watching the wind.... Not watching the wind...

5 shot groups. Upper right with flags shoot'n a repeatable 11:00 oclock headwind ONLY while switches were a bit erratic from straight away 12:00 oclock to 9:00 - 10:00 oclock. Nice group from a repeatable rifle BTW is a bedded Savage BVSS with a WONDERFUL Pacnor in .20-222 tube.
The group bottom left was without flags (picked up the flags to head home) just for giggles. I can still see the condition in the group. The three goin bit high right across was the first three shots, I'll bet through the 9:00/10:00 stuff. The last two shots low and touching was the condition 11:00 oclock I'm sure of it..!

If the rifle/shooter is capable, then flags will/can point the way to consistent accuracy. Of course this is why no Benchrest shooter wouldn't be caught dead without their flags....!

20-22202-08.jpg


cale
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Flags...

Another note...

March 9th there is a club 100yd Score followed by Group Benchrest match at Denton NTSA range.

http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49134

Since you live in the Dallas Fort Worth area, in your neck of the woods.
Come on over and see the flags in use.

Directions: Jerry's home page left hand side scroll down to "Denton Matches".
Ignore the match dates, they are last years matches. Scroll down past match dates and you'll see the directions to the range.
http://viperactions.com/

cale
 
Thanks caroby,

The action on my Rem 700 was pillar bedded at the time the barrel was installed by a gunsmith who is a former benchrest shooter and respected by people much more knowledgeable than me. I’m going to assume that the work he did is correct. It’s probably my lack of experience dealing with the wind. I can shoot consistent 3/8” groups with my Krieger heavy barreled AR using the Hornady 75gr Match ammo so I know I can shoot better than 1/2". I’ve just never had a gun that shoots such light bullets.

Pardon my ignorance, but I’m not familiar enough with this site to know who the ‘Mike” is that you referred to. Do you have the name of his book and where I can get it?

I’d love to see the picture you have posted, but all I have is a red ‘X’ in a small box. Could you give it another try.

Thanks for your help.
 
Thanks again Larry, I'll order the book.

Nice groups caroby, when I look at that .5" group I have to remind myself that the holes are only .2 diameter. It makes the group look larger than it actually is.

Is that smaller group a 5 shot group? If so that's amazing.
 
Larry M said:
Bedding, scope,bullets. If you have variance on the ogive your seater could be contacting the bullets in a different place higher/lower on the ogive in effect causing bullets to have a different seating depth. but .75 is alot. Do you sort your bullets /
Click to expand...

I never did get a reply on the bullet sorting question. If I sort by weight, what is an acceptable weight range per group?

Thanks,

John
 
Shoot Bergers and forget weighing.

0214081925-1.jpg

204 Ruger M-12 VLP 40 gn Bergs and Benchmark. Factory tube.
Shot this Tuesday "tuning" my load in for winter. .2 gns higher than summer.
I still get excited when that happens. not surprised but excited.
Savages will shoot. I've gone into the .0s. Not as often as I would like though.

My greatest acheivement will be if this post/picture works at all.
Never tried to post a pic and I'm quite lost.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have never sorted by weight. But if I did I would probably weigh a bunch tofind out what total variance was. Then I would make a decision of the tolerance I could live with. But probably the best test would be to wait for a really calm day and shoot some of the heaviest and lightest bullets together. It probably be best to test at whatever distance you intend to shoot the most. But the farther that you are able to test the more pronounced any differences will be.
 
jo191145 said:
Shoot Bergers and forget weighing.

View attachment 5236

204 Ruger M-12 VLP 40 gn Bergs and Benchmark. Factory tube.
Shot this Tuesday "tuning" my load in for winter. .2 gns higher than summer.
I still get excited when that happens. not surprised but excited.
Savages will shoot. I've gone into the .0s. Not as often as I would like though.

My greatest acheivement will be if this post/picture works at all.
Never tried to post a pic and I'm quite lost.
Click to expand...

The pictrure worked Jo, and that is a fantastic group. I'd be happy with a group twice that size. Thanks for the info.
 
Larry M said:
I have never sorted by weight. But if I did I would probably weigh a bunch tofind out what total variance was. Then I would make a decision of the tolerance I could live with. But probably the best test would be to wait for a really calm day and shoot some of the heaviest and lightest bullets together. It probably be best to test at whatever distance you intend to shoot the most. But the farther that you are able to test the more pronounced any differences will be.
Click to expand...

Thanks again Larry, but I really don't know what an acceptable tollerance is. Is plus or minus .2 of a grain considered OK?

On a slightly different note, I had my .204 made with a reamer that I purchased for this rifle. The reamer manufacturer said that the throat on this reamer was shorter than the normal .204 Ruger Match chamber. The 1.5 degree taper starts at about .040" off the neck and according to the manufacturer, that's about as short as it can be made. My original goal was to shoot the 32 grain Sierra BK but I only had about .030 of the bullet in the case when I seated the bullets out to the rifling. I've since discovered that I can seat the bullets at least .010 off the rifling and get better groups but it still seems like not enough. I was taught to seat the bullet one diameter into the case if possible.
I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience with their .204 Ruger. How does your gun shoot with the lighter bullets?
 
My 204 has a chamber with 0 throat. Oddest thing and the damn thing shoots like a house afire. I worried at first because the bullets were jammed into the rifling and were still deeeep into the case. After I started shooting it with n133 I had very good luck with it. It is just a hair shy of agging with my 6PPC.

I am having a reamer made by Dave Kiff right now with a short tight neck, a sharp shoulder and .015" of freebore. It is a compromise to get my bullets from being quite so buried off into the case. I am shooting 40 grain Bergers at 3900 fps or just under. This is the most enjoyable rifle I have ever experienced from just a pure joy of shooting standpoint.

My 6ppc is slightly more accurate so it enables me to compete with the great people in this benchrest game. That trumps pure joy of shooting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top