1000 yd flags......

ray,
quickload/quicktarget..puts a a 105 doing 2980( i think theat is the nmbers i was given) at 260 plus inches at mid range........ with a 1000 yd zero....i go try 3100 but no one listed that high in my request.
(just ran the 3100 numbers...400 yds plus 242"/500 plus 253"/600 plus 239"......thats 20 feet above line of sight)

and you are correct i may never use them again..but gonna try first.
mike in co
Cheechako said:
Mike

It's just my opinion but my experience tells me that things like this sound good but they usually end up being dicarded after one or two uses.

I'm still having a hard time understanding how you came up with the figure of 20' above the line of sight. I realize the benches at Byers are elevated, but the same is true at most other 1000 yard ranges. The targets are usually designed so that they are at the same elevation as the benches so there isn't a lot of shooting uphill or downhill. The intermediate berms to accomodate Palma, F Class and Hi Power are usually at the same level as the benches and targets. A cartridge like a typical 6mm shooting a 105 grain VLD at 3100 fps has a mid-range trajectory of less than 90 inches, or approx 16 MOA. If you put a flag at the 500 yard berm it would have to be only 6 or 7 feet high. Mid-range trajectory is typically about 1/3 of total drop.

Am I figuring something wrong?? It is Sunday and maybe my brain is still asleep.

Ray
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well Mike, you lost me. I cannot find a ballistic table that gives figures like that. A quickie JBM for a .585 BC bullet at 2980fps shows 400 yard elevation of 84.1" and maximum elevation at 600 yards of 91.8". Are you sure you are not looking at drop??

Ray
 
mike in co said:
multiple relays means like shooters can be benched on the same bench so flags are not an issue...( a lefty or myself pull a first relay bench, the other request to share the bench in the next relay so we can share benches/flags.....sorry i see it done all the time...heck they even post here asking to share in advance for planning purposes)

most of the guys seem to shoot dashers or 300 win mag....there are a few others...but it appears the 300 win mag has the flatest trajectory...so i think i'm good.
tod when you bring a flatter shooting gun, AND we get on the same bench , we will deal with it...until then it aint an issue.
( i just checked again..the dashers are over 20 FEET above the line of sight...thats 12 feet above my 300 win mag and my flag)

you gonna be there next sunday ??

mike in co
Click to expand...

Again...first off the guys who request to shoot oppisit relays still need to be drawn for bench assignment. You may be on bench 4 in relay one, but the guy sharing your equipment is supose to be put in a draw also. If you have 20 benches, the odds of the guy sharing with you getting the exact same assignment is twenty to one. If they are simply letting you guys keep your stuff on the same bench between relays they are breaking the rules. It is an unfair advantage to you both.

Second...In what friggin world is a wimpy 300 win 12 feet below a dasher.....I am thinking you are suffering from altitude sickness, being way up there in CO.

Like I said..the Infinity I-6 program list a .3 MOA (thats 3 inches ) differance in impact between a .308 Berger 210 VLD at 2950 and a .243 Berger 105 vld at 3040 at 1000 yards, using the same perameters .
 
Last edited:
Just the thought of a 1000yd range covered with flags is, well..Like a couple of thousand range flags at Camp Perry, that would be disgusting.

Please keep the personal flags out of long range shooting.
 
i'll do what i can within the rules to shoot the best i can....if you choose to ignore an aid..that is your choice.
mike in co

TRA said:
Just the thought of a 1000yd range covered with flags is, well..Like a couple of thousand range flags at Camp Perry, that would be disgusting.

Please keep the personal flags out of long range shooting.
Click to expand...
 
guys i use quickload and quicktarget software out of germany///sold here.
the numbers come from it.
i'll go look again see if i enter something in error.
but the 300 win mag numbers i have done many times.
mike in co
Cheechako said:
Well Mike, you lost me. I cannot find a ballistic table that gives figures like that. A quickie JBM for a .585 BC bullet at 2980fps shows 400 yard elevation of 84.1" and maximum elevation at 600 yards of 91.8". Are you sure you are not looking at drop??

Ray
Click to expand...
 
Mike,
I agree with most of the other posts here. You may be allowed to put your "tall" flags in the line of the range flags on the border(I don't know what advantage that would be) but you will not be allowed to put them in the target lanes. If you want you can file a formal protest at the match and let it be settled through the IBS grievance process. I am confident they will not rule in your favor.
The rules allow bench draws to accommodate shared equipment, sometimes I think shooters try to take advantage of this rule, I don't think your reasoning is in the spirit of the this rule.

Until you have shot a few LR matches I don't think you understand the problems associated with the flags you suggest.

James
 
tod...this will be my first 1000yd shoot and most of my other br is club level. i will do what i am told to do. ibs 1000yd rules...
the wimpy 300 winmag is 12' UNDER the dasher......
i dont have infinity..i have quickload and quick target out of germany/ sold here by NECO.

mike in co

Tod Soeby said:
Again...first off the guys who request to shoot oppisit relays still need to be drawn for bench assignment. You may be on bench 4 in relay one, but the guy sharing your equipment is supose to be put in a draw also. If you have 20 benches, the odds of the guy sharing with you getting the exact same assignment is twenty to one. If they are simply letting you guys keep your stuff on the same bench between relays they are breaking the rules. It is an unfair advantage to you both.

Second...In what friggin world is a wimpy 300 win 12 feet above a dasher.....I am thinking you are suffering from altitude sickness, being way up there in CO.

Like I said..the Infinity I-6 program list a .3 MOA (thats 3 inches ) differance in impact between a .308 Berger 210 VLD at 2950 and a .243 Berger 105 vld at 3040 at 1000 yards, using the same perameters .
Click to expand...
 
Maybe the German program is in furlongs per fortnight.:)

Use JBM. It's free. It's simple, or as complicated as you want it to be.

No polite way to say this - your numbers (20') are wrong.

Ray
 
ok here is some data that appears to be an issue.
in my data base a berger 105 vld pn 24429 the new g7 bc is .272...and ray says .585......soooooooooooooooooooooooooo
talk to me
 
see if this works 105 at 2980....
100yd increments,,,,the x is 1000 zero

1000 yd. Zero +65.6 +127.9 +183.1 +228.0 +259.0 +269.5 +253.1 +205.3 +122.6 X

cut and past form the software...
and for the 300 win mag 208 amax at 2955 with a .684 bc

1000 yd. Zero +28.0 +53.4 +73.9 +88.5 +96.6 +97.4 +90.0 +71.7 +41.9 X

looks like the bc in the software is wrong for the bergers ??....no...but i was using the NEW G7 BC........NOT the old std bc which is 532 or so...so does it make more sense this wasy ???

ok using a bc of 532 on the 105 at 2980
1000 yd. Zero +31.7 +60.9 +84.9 +102.7 +113.4 +115.8 +107.2 +86.9 +52.8 X
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Assuming those are 100 yard increments - do you believe the bullet is 65.6 MOA high at 100 yards???

If you're using a BC of .272 your numbers could be right.

Ray
 
sorta.... it means to get a 1000 yd zero, you would need to be 65 high at on a 100 yd target

mike in co
Cheechako said:
Assuming those are 100 yard increments - do you believe the bullet is 65.6 MOA high at 100 yards???

If you're using a BC of .272 your numbers could be right.

Ray
Click to expand...
 
sooooo
using old bc data for both 300 and dasher..the dasher is higher at a max of 115 and the 300 is still at 97............so with my flag at 15 feet( remember the 8 foot berm) its still under the dasher.

i'll go check at 3100 that soemone claimed.......continued...at 3100 th e105 is at 105...still higher than the 300 win mag....
does anyone have bc data with better valid numbers...not someone wish data ??
mike in co
 
Last edited by a moderator:
G7 bc and G2 bc are two compleatly different things. You can not take a g7 bc of say 280 and put a 280 g2 bc bullet in the same mix.....it's apples to oranges....if you are going to use g7 bc for one you need the g7 bc for the other, and vis versa. Or your program needs to know the differance between the two when you imput the data.

Now..lets move our zero to 1000 yards.....the 6mm bullet follows this ark...0, 25, 48, 66, 79, 86, 86, 79, 63, 37, 0 (in inches above at 100 - 1000 yards in 100 yard increments.) . The 30 cal is as follows....0, 25, 48, 65, 78, 85, 84, 77, 61, 36, 0.

I hate to burst your bubble, but it looks to me like there is only ONE INCH DIFFERANCE between the two at there highest point in the flight out to 1000 yards.

My I-5 program concures with the I-6.
 
Last edited:
tod our data does not agree...give me the g2 bc you have for both bullets...
i have 532 for the 105 berger
and
648 for the 208 amax
miek in co
 
You need to start over with a good ballistic program and correct BCs.

You also need to forget that 8' berm unless the other berms are 8' lower than the bench, which I don't think they are.

Ray
 
Last edited by a moderator:
my program has been good for years....it is updated regularly...but we all know that not all manufactures have published honest bc's.
right now we are off by inches...which is why i asked for your bc's
no i cant forget the 8 foot berm because my flags have to be 8 ft higher than the calculations..... the programs look at line of sight and flight..they do not consider the valley under line of sight.


shooting lane would be the width of my bench to the width of the target...side to side.....i would guess slightly larger as benches are not ontop of each other.

mike in co
Cheechako said:
You need to start over with a good ballistic program and correct BCs.

You also need to forget that 8' berm unless the target is 8' lower than the bench, which I don't think it is.

Ray
Click to expand...
 
i agree the 20ft number was wrong ..i was using the g7 not the g2 bc
what bc do you have for the hornady 208 amax ?
mike in co
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top