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Thread: Possible F class/Palma rifle

  1. #1
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    Possible F class/Palma rifle

    I've been interested in Palma and F class matches for a few years now, but was unsure how much it might cost to get started.

    Earlier this week I glommed this Winchester 70 .308 rifle at an on-line auction.



    Comes with a Hart barrel and OK Weber sights. I've obviously heard good things about Hart barrels. Also, I've learned that the sght is an RPA Trakker, imported by OK Weber.

    Better pics when it arrives.

  2. #2
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    Take the hand stop off and install a bipod adapter. Toss the sights, install a good scope. Work up a load with some 155gr match bullets and go shoot some F-Class!

  3. #3
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    Thanks AJ.

    The rifle comes with Unertl style scope blocks.

    Does anyone compete with the old externally adjustable scopes? What is the ideal power range for an F class scope?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfed View Post
    Thanks AJ.

    The rifle comes with Unertl style scope blocks.

    Does anyone compete with the old externally adjustable scopes? What is the ideal power range for an F class scope?

    A friend of mine competes at a local 600 yard midrange match with one, I wouldn't consider it mainstream though. As for power you could get by with a 20X~25X. The majority of shooters are using more magnification.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ300MAG View Post
    A friend of mine competes at a local 600 yard midrange match with one, I wouldn't consider it mainstream though. As for power you could get by with a 20X~25X. The majority of shooters are using more magnification.
    Thanks

    I have a Bausch and Lomb 36X scope also. I might have to drill and tapp the receiver for it.

    What is the best scope mount to use for F class?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfed View Post
    Thanks

    I have a Bausch and Lomb 36X scope also. I might have to drill and tapp the receiver for it.

    What is the best scope mount to use for F class?
    That depends on a lot of things. What range you intend to shoot, how much internal adjustment is available with your scope and where the barrel shoots elevation wise. Some of us use a rail with 20MOA cant built in and a good set of rings. The bottom line is that you'll need approximately 35MOA + to reach 1000 yards.

  7. #7
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    Thanks again, AJ

    I'll have to test my B&L 36X to see if it will need some elevation help from a 20MOA mount.

    Do most F class shooters use a Picatinney rail, as opposed to a Leupold style standard twist mount or a Weaver mount?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfed View Post
    Thanks again, AJ

    I'll have to test my B&L 36X to see if it will need some elevation help from a 20MOA mount.

    Do most F class shooters use a Picatinney rail, as opposed to a Leupold style standard twist mount or a Weaver mount?
    I believe you'll find that the majority of shooters are using a Picatiny rail on their rifle. You have the option of having the cant machined into the rail or using a set of Burris rings with offset inserts. The main goal is having enough vertical adjustment to reach the maximum range you intend on shooting without the scope being at the end of its available adjustment. That would limit how much windage could be dialed in which is critical at long range. I set up my scopes where they are aprox 10MOA from the end of adjustment.

    In my situation I shoot from 300 yards (Fullbore Matches) out to 1000 yards. My Nightforce 12.5-42 BR is limited to roughly 42MOA total adjustment. With my Winchester match rifle and a flat rail I don't have enough scope adjustment to reach 1000 yards. Using a 20 MOA rail and the adjustment bottomed out the rifle would shoot aprox 7MOA high at 100 yards. I want to hold dead on at 300 yards so I machined a rail with 15MOA cant. I'm 2MOA high at 100 yards with the adjustment bottomed out, I can dial up for 300 yards and have enough adjustment to be able to make it out to 1000 yards while still have some up adjustment available.
    Last edited by AJ300MAG; 07-02-2013 at 10:54 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ300MAG View Post
    I believe you'll find that the majority of shooters are using a Picatiny rail on their rifle. You have the option of having the cant machined into the rail or using a set of Burris rings with offset inserts. The main goal is having enough vertical adjustment to reach the maximum range you intend on shooting without the scope being at the end of its available adjustment. That would limit how much windage could be dialed in which is critical at long range. I set up my scopes where they are aprox 10MOA from the end of adjustment.

    In my situation I shoot from 300 yards (Fullbore Matches) out to 1000 yards. My Nightforce 12.5-42 BR is limited to roughly 42MOA total adjustment. With my Winchester match rifle and a flat rail I don't have enough scope adjustment to reach 1000 yards. Using a 20 MOA rail and the adjustment bottomed out the rifle would shoot aprox 7MOA high at 100 yards. I want to hold dead on at 300 yards so I machined a rail with 15MOA cant. I'm 2MOA high at 100 yards with the adjustment bottomed out, I can dial up for 300 yards and have enough adjustment to be able to make it out to 1000 yards while still have some up adjustment available.

    A Picatiny rail it is then. Once I know how much adjustment is available with my scope I'll determine if I need a canted rail. Are different cants available? (20...15...10 MOA)?

    Got some more good news today. I spoke with the gun store owner who is handling the shipments for the auction house. He advised that many of the rifles from the auction came with shooting logs and some even came with brass. Whatever came to them with the rifle will be shipped with the rifle.

    He was not at his store, so he could not say whether my rifle came with brass or a log, but it might.

    I found the prior owner's obituary on line...sounded like a great American.
    Last edited by Calfed; 07-02-2013 at 10:45 PM.

  10. #10
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    Yes different cants are available though the selection for Winchesters are limited. Another option is to contact someone like Near Manufacturing and have him machine a custom rail for you or you can get ahold of a good gunsmith that has the proper equipment to finish machine a rail blank that will suit your requirements.

    Remember for F-TR Class the maximum weight for your rifle with bipod attached is 18.2lbs
    Last edited by AJ300MAG; 07-02-2013 at 02:48 PM.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for all the assistance, AJ300.

  12. #12
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    Palma and F-Class

    The only thing Palma and F-Class have in common today is Palma and FTR are limited to 308.

    The Palma (International) is limited to 155 grain bullets. They shoot 800, 900, 1000 yards with Iron Sights, in a hand held rifle with a sling. The new Palma shooters use 30mm front sights and rear sights with adjustable diopters. To keep 155 grain bullets supersonic at 1000 yards the bores are tight .298", the barrels are long 30-32", and the rate of twist 1:12-1:14 (most common). The targets are different from the F-Class Target larger X ring and 10 rings.

    The F-Class FTR rigs are shooting 155-230gr bullets. F-Class is usually shot as mid range (300, 500, 600) or long range (600, and 1000). Yes, Palma matches often share the course with F-Class. The scopes in F-Class vary in power from 12-60 power. Due to the long bearing surfaces of the heavier bullets the most common bore diameters are .300" x .308", and barrel lengths vary from 30-34". The targets have a smaller diameter from the 5 ring in to the X ring. The FTR rifle is shot off a Bipod in the front and a sand bag in the back. The Bipods have gotten quite sophisticated.

    Yes, one disciplines rifle can be adapted to shoot in another discipline.

    F-Class just like all other shooting disciplines has become an equipment race. The better shooters are shooting custom or modified rifles, even most of the better shooters who are shooting Savages are shooting Savages that have been modified.

    On another post I saw comment about "Bench rest shooting dying". F-Class is growing everyday. Jim Kelby's post said 10% of his business is short range bench rest and the rest is going toward longrange. A big portion of that market is going to F-Class. F-Class is just "Belly Benchrest", that is shooting prone and not shooting from a bench.

    Just as short range bench rest is thining out so is Palma and long range match rifle. The trend is moving toward mid and long range bench rest, F-Class and Tactical matches.
    Nat Lambeth

  13. #13
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    Thanks, Nat.

    I got the rifle with sights for $750, which seemed like a pretty good deal for a "starter" rifle . I'm waiting for it to arrive at my FFL and will give it a good going over once it has.

    It came with the Unertl style scope blocks, but I understand that the old external adjustment scopes are not used much in F class anymore.
    Last edited by Calfed; 07-12-2013 at 12:31 AM.

  14. #14
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    The rifle arrived at my FFL and I had a chance to look it over before it started the 10 day waiting period. The barrel is a very heavy Hart 30" barrel and is in great shape. Trigger is adjustable and excellent and the action has been bedded.

    I did take the sights with me. The rear is an RPA Trakker and in great shape.


  15. #15
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    That is a very nice deal. Mr Lambeth really captured a lot of great info in his post to which I would only add this. Go to some matches in your area and check out whats going on. Around here people are pretty free with great advice and are more than willing to save you from crying twice on any purchase.

    Have fun with your new gun and let us know how she does!

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