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Thread: A list of importance:

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Nader View Post
    The main reasoning behind my participation in this thread is to make the point that anybody can do this. Anybody with a decent Benchrest rifle and some basic equipment and the willingness to show up at a match can compete. At any range across the country a new BR shooter will be greeted with open arms helpful hands and usually an invitation to dinner. Open discussion around the reloading area is a great place to pick up knowledge and improve your game. Be invited to sit behind somebody else's bench set up and shoot their rifle during practice sessions, ask questions and get honest answers. It truly is a brotherhood of like minded accuracy enthusiasts.
    I try, when I can to dispel the myth of any mystic "excaliber" rifles that only King Arthur can wield. At every major shoot very good rifles and equipment are for sale at reasonable prices. T- powder, Hottenstien bullets, proven scopes and equipment from real shooters with real phone numbers and a willingness to help along the guy that bought their stuff.
    So you finish your first match at the bottom of the list, no big deal, we all did. You will improve, you will have fun and you get to enjoy shooting some of the most accurate rifles on the planet. Hope to see you around.

    Joel
    Just because this needs posted againÖ.

    I hope every person whoís looking to get into Benchrest and wanders onto this forum will read this.

    Thank you Joel.

    -Brian

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,496

    Not all Actions are created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis L Martin View Post
    Yes you are right. some good shooters don't shoot as good after being re-glued. And yes i have seen "bad" barrels that worked on other actions. But I had a talk with Ed just this week about certain actions that just always worked. I don't mean that they would win the match every time you pulled them out, but didn't shoot big no matter the barrel or the stock. Ed has one and I believe I have one, but I'm not Ed. Glenn thinks he had one. In other words you may have a gun that shoots smaller, but this paticular gun doesn't shoot as big if the wheels are coming off. In no way am I implying that they make a bad barrel good, or will shoot with a trigger that causes ignition prolems, but just dependable. Like Ed said, if you need a .4 at 200 this gun will give it to you every time. I hope you don't think that i meant a good action doesn't need good barrels, trigger or scopes. That was not what I meant. All actions are not created equal. Does that sound right Glenn.



    Hey Dennis,good to see you in the room.I donít see where its necessary ,for you, to defend your position on your observation that ďAll actions are not created equalĒ Ive also heard some of the shooters you mention ,say the same thing, about some rifles. I think Mike Conry designs and builds his own actions.

    Some actions have issues that need to be addressed to assure proper function. I bought my Rifle used from an experienced Benchrest shooter/gunsmith. I finished in the top five at the first registered match I ever attended.
    All the top shooters in the Region were in attendance.`

    Ive told this story here before, so iíll keep it short. I was so hooked after that first match, I immediately began collecting components to have another rifle built(From scratch) using the same identical parts. The second Rifle never matched the accuracy of that first one.Switching things around didnít help. Both Rifles got stolen at the same time. The new one was recovered, with help from some friends at the ATF. Iím reluctant to disclose how much Iíve spent trying to replace that hummer rifle. If youíve ever owned one of these rifles you know what Iím talking about.

    I do this for fun, like I do any recreational sport/hobby. I retired,20 years ago, from a high stress job. Have no desire to turn a recreational sport into a job.

    I view an action as the heart/engine of the Rifle. Same as a race car. You race car enthusiasts, that post here, can relate to this. Ive been told that the engine is the most important part of a race car build. You can put together the best race car, but unless you spend time, learning how to drive it, its just another car.

    I think Scopes is high on the list of importance. I posted here before the book,Ēextreme Rifle AccuracyĒ by Mike Ratigan was published. I had two agg killing scopes. A problem that took too long to identify.

    Barrels,Bullets, One Hall Of Famer says Reamers make a difference. Charles Huckeba says primers make a difference. Larry Baggett says powder makes a difference. A lot of things to try to process for some.

    If it was easy it wouldnít be fun.

    Hope to see you at a match in 2022.


    Glenn
    Last edited by Chism G; 12-19-2021 at 09:12 AM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Texas
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    1,496

    Hummer Rifle Stock




    You might remember getting beat by this Rifle

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Guymon OK
    Posts
    75

    The Blue Light Special!

    I've been beat by so many I could never remember them all. But you should be honored because I sure remember that K-Mart gun. I think i actually asked you about it when we shared a bench in Lubbock.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,496

    All Actions are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis L Martin View Post
    I've been beat by so many I could never remember them all. But you should be honored because I sure remember that K-Mart gun. I think i actually asked you about it when we shared a bench in Lubbock.


    Thanks Dennis. I am truly honored. That Rifle brings back some fun memories. it brought smiles to many faces.

    During my stay here,I see people that find enjoyment, in just showing up and shooting with like minded people. Some travel long distances, for love of the sport. Some never win much of anything. Actually the only losers are the people that donít show up. That commitment has always been the LIFE LINE OF THE SPORT. The road to the Hall Of Fame begins when you walk in the door.

    I Donít pass up an opportunity to introduce a new shooter to the sport. I donít know how much longer iíll keep coming back, Iím half speed due to age related issues. I still like talking about the good times and sharing benches with fellow shooters. OhÖ It was Speedy who said that "Reamers" make a difference.


    Glenn

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lower Dakota Territory
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    2,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Chism G View Post
    Actually the only losers are the people that donít show up. Glenn
    Well said, Glenn.

    Good shootin' -Al

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
    Posts
    6,580

    SO, practice:

    Lets talk about how much and how to practice.

    Pete

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    "Canal Town",USA
    Posts
    609

    Practice ?

    From a group shooters point of view, none of us get much practice. The evaluation of equipment is paramount in our non-match range time. We put on a barrel and run a ladder test with our best components looking for, hoping for, a barrel that that just sticks 'em. We don't cherry pick conditions on the range. We want to see a barrel that cuts through the minor changes in the wind angle and intensity with a moderately wide tune window. If we are fortunate enough(usually 1 out of 4) to have such a barrel we will usually park the rifle at under 100rds until we can get to a match and shoot an agg in competition with it. These 6ppc's don't hold gilt edge accuracy much past 1000 rds so we don't want to waste a potential winner in practice.
    So now we move on to rifle #2 and maybe it dosn't look fantastic, again we don't cherry pick conditions but this barrel gets pushed around by every little pick up and angle change, so we check for fouling issues and keep working with it up and down the ladder in seating depth and powder charge until it behaves in an honest fashion for the conditions at hand. Maybe it gives us nothing, maybe we change powder and or bullets looking for a barrel we can compete with. Usually within 200rds we have some opinion of what we can do with it.
    And so the progression goes onto rifle #3. Almost all of these barrels will be competitive at one match or another. At some matches conditions will be near perfect and it will take your best barrel to pull off a win. At other matches conditions will be just horrible and we will bring out a second string rifle as not to waste a great barrel when you don't need glimmering accuracy to win the match. Sometimes I am just not shooting that well, not focused, missing easy to read flag changes, etc and I will leave my best rifle in the case for another day.
    Here in Vegas we shoot score matches once a month and that is my best practice session. The range usually clocks around throughout the day with velocity and angle changes almost constantly. It's not like back east where you can pound the sighter until you are dead nuts positive where the bullet will impact, conditions change too fast. You need to keep your eyes peeled, watch the flags, swing and hold.
    I use my not so good 6ppc barrels, bullets, etc. I generally score 496-499 in the 1-200 grand with a low X count. The 30's on the line generally out X me at 100 but the 6 usually takes the day at 200.
    I generally arrive at my group matches a day or two ahead of time with 2 rifles and will check the rifles tune for the ambient range conditions(temp,humidity,altitude,etc). Then shoot some groups in different wind conditions(velocity,angle) to see what conditions are the most favorable to shooting small groups and aggs. When the match begins I'm usually prepared for whatever the day will bring.
    Joel

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
    Posts
    6,580

    Thanks for the reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Nader View Post
    From a group shooters point of view, none of us get much practice. The evaluation of equipment is paramount in our non-match range time. We put on a barrel and run a ladder test with our best components looking for, hoping for, a barrel that that just sticks 'em. We don't cherry pick conditions on the range. We want to see a barrel that cuts through the minor changes in the wind angle and intensity with a moderately wide tune window. If we are fortunate enough(usually 1 out of 4) to have such a barrel we will usually park the rifle at under 100rds until we can get to a match and shoot an agg in competition with it. These 6ppc's don't hold gilt edge accuracy much past 1000 rds so we don't want to waste a potential winner in practice.
    So now we move on to rifle #2 and maybe it dosn't look fantastic, again we don't cherry pick conditions but this barrel gets pushed around by every little pick up and angle change, so we check for fouling issues and keep working with it up and down the ladder in seating depth and powder charge until it behaves in an honest fashion for the conditions at hand. Maybe it gives us nothing, maybe we change powder and or bullets looking for a barrel we can compete with. Usually within 200rds we have some opinion of what we can do with it.
    And so the progression goes onto rifle #3. Almost all of these barrels will be competitive at one match or another. At some matches conditions will be near perfect and it will take your best barrel to pull off a win. At other matches conditions will be just horrible and we will bring out a second string rifle as not to waste a great barrel when you don't need glimmering accuracy to win the match. Sometimes I am just not shooting that well, not focused, missing easy to read flag changes, etc and I will leave my best rifle in the case for another day.
    Here in Vegas we shoot score matches once a month and that is my best practice session. The range usually clocks around throughout the day with velocity and angle changes almost constantly. It's not like back east where you can pound the sighter until you are dead nuts positive where the bullet will impact, conditions change too fast. You need to keep your eyes peeled, watch the flags, swing and hold.
    I use my not so good 6ppc barrels, bullets, etc. I generally score 496-499 in the 1-200 grand with a low X count. The 30's on the line generally out X me at 100 but the 6 usually takes the day at 200.
    I generally arrive at my group matches a day or two ahead of time with 2 rifles and will check the rifles tune for the ambient range conditions(temp,humidity,altitude,etc). Then shoot some groups in different wind conditions(velocity,angle) to see what conditions are the most favorable to shooting small groups and aggs. When the match begins I'm usually prepared for whatever the day will bring.
    Joel
    This process, more or less is what I see folks doing at the range. Most people I know buy a barrel, get it chambered and find something that will shoot in it and shoot it until it quits. None of the people I shoot with shoot Group. Group shooting just isn't practical for us because the matches are so far away. Most of the shooters (Score Shooting) I shoot with shot 30's.

    I have the idea that practice should be done in match like conditions, against the clock with all one's match equipment set up. A few folks do that. I never have practiced in the more than 20 years I have been shooting. I once either heard or read that Tony B practiced every day he could, had his own range close to his house. Don't know if it's true but if it is, that's dedication. Years ago now, I had 200 yards at my house but never used it to practice. Should have. I am going to endeavor to practice some in the coming year. I know I have more and more trouble remembering things so perhaps practice will help that.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete Wass; 12-23-2021 at 10:12 AM.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    La Belle Province
    Posts
    162

    Practice ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nader View Post
    You need to keep your eyes peeled, watch the flags, swing and hold.
    Joel
    I remember watching you and Harley one time the day before the shoot doing exactly that. It was real fine watching. I wish I had of been smart enough to ask question......

    Ken

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
    Posts
    6,580

    I have often wondered

    Quote Originally Posted by Chism G View Post



    You might remember getting beat by this Rifle
    how much a stock and bedding play into how accurate rifles are. Will a Hummer barreled action, bedded into another stock still be a hummer? I've never believed actions were the critical link. Once the bolt locks a round up in a barrel, the action has served it's function and requirements. So, will a Hummer Platform, a bedded action, allow a wider quality of barrel to be more accurate?

    Pete

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,496

    "Blue Light Special"

    [QUOTE=Pete Wass; will a Hummer Platform, a bedded action, allow a wider quality of barrel to be more accurate?

    Pete[/QUOTE]


    Pete,the only way to find out is to screw a "wider quality barrel" on my "Blue Light Special", and see what happens.

    I bedded the action into the stock you see in the picture. As previously stated, I purchased the Rifle used, from a well known Benchrest shooter/gunsmith. I have no idea what he might have done to the action prior to my possession. The Rifle came with a new Shilen barrel. I had two Kreigers and a bartline chambered ,with my reamer,when the Shilen finally gave up. They all shot great. The Shilen was a real Hummer.

    The brand new Rifle,Same brand action and stock, came with a new Kreiger.barrel. It never shot like theĒ Blue Light SpecialĒ. I had four new barrels chambered for that new Rifle. It shot just OK. Nothing special. It became my backup, that I seldom reached for.

    i miss my Rifle.

    Glenn

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,496

    Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    This process, more or less is what I see folks doing at the range. Most people I know buy a barrel, get it chambered and find something that will shoot in it and shoot it until it quits. None of the people I shoot with shoot Group. Group shooting just isn't practical for us because the matches are so far away. Most of the shooters (Score Shooting) I shoot with shot 30's.

    I have the idea that practice should be done in match like conditions, against the clock with all one's match equipment set up. A few folks do that. I never have practiced in the more than 20 years I have been shooting. I once either heard or read that Tony B practiced every day he could, had his own range close to his house. Don't know if it's true but if it is, that's dedication. Years ago now, I had 200 yards at my house but never used it to practice. Should have. I am going to endeavor to practice some in the coming year. I know I have more and more trouble remembering things so perhaps practice will help that.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    Pete


    I Need Practice

    Ive shot at matches with Competitors who have private ranges at home or they live in close proximity to a Rifle range. A few have underground tunnels. Does it make a difference?. I donít know. Donít have a private range or tunnel. Sure would be nice to be able to walk out the back door and test your ammo,Bench technique,scope,etc,etc. Unfortunately,Some dont have a place to practice. Some show up at Benchrest matches ,having practiced very little. This is not a bad thing. There is a lot to be learned at a Benchrest match. The big thing is, youíre in speaking distance of a group of knowledgeable shooters. Donít be hesitant to ask. Some will keep coming back. For some, itís a revolving door. This scenario is true, regarding any recreational sport. Thats why itís important to not slam the door in the face of those who show an interest.

    I think the mentoring program is a great idea for those who wish to take advantage of it.


    Glenn

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ellamore, WV
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Chism G View Post
    I Need Practice

    Ive shot at matches with Competitors who have private ranges at home or they live in close proximity to a Rifle range. A few have underground tunnels. Does it make a difference?. I donít know. Donít have a private range or tunnel. Sure would be nice to be able to walk out the back door and test your ammo,Bench technique,scope,etc,etc. Unfortunately,Some dont have a place to practice. Some show up at Benchrest matches ,having practiced very little. This is not a bad thing. There is a lot to be learned at a Benchrest match. The big thing is, youíre in speaking distance of a group of knowledgeable shooters. Donít be hesitant to ask. Some will keep coming back. For some, itís a revolving door. This scenario is true, regarding any recreational sport. Thats why itís important to not slam the door in the face of those who show an interest.

    I think the mentoring program is a great idea for those who wish to take advantage of it.


    Glenn
    well said

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
    Posts
    6,580

    Did you try

    Quote Originally Posted by Chism G View Post
    Pete,the only way to find out is to screw a "wider quality barrel" on my "Blue Light Special", and see what happens.

    I bedded the action into the stock you see in the picture. As previously stated, I purchased the Rifle used, from a well known Benchrest shooter/gunsmith. I have no idea what he might have done to the action prior to my possession. The Rifle came with a new Shilen barrel. I had two Kreigers and a bartline chambered ,with my reamer,when the Shilen finally gave up. They all shot great. The Shilen was a real Hummer.

    The brand new Rifle,Same brand action and stock, came with a new Kreiger.barrel. It never shot like theĒ Blue Light SpecialĒ. I had four new barrels chambered for that new Rifle. It shot just OK. Nothing special. It became my backup, that I seldom reached for.

    i miss my Rifle.

    Glenn
    the New barreled action in the Black stock? That would be the only to find out if it is, in fact the action, wouldn't it? Have you tried the Blue Light Special barreled action in another stock?

    Thanks,

    Pete

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