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Thread: ARA Indoor Nationals

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry H View Post
    An important dimension is the amount of bullet engraving when the bolt is closed which is dictated by how deep a rimless reamer cuts the barrel. There are several depths that work well with Eley and several that work well with Lapua but only 2 that work equally well with both. One is not readily visible and the other shows the rifling on the first 2 driving bands.
    Jerry,

    Thanks for your input.

    I am aware of the importance of engraving on the bullet. I'm also aware that both Eley and Lapua, vary lot to lot, in their overall length. They even vary within the same lot.

    I do not know the depths that you say work with Eley or Lapua. Would you be willing to share those numbers in terms of chamber depth? Or perhaps engraving on the bullet.

    TKH (4628)

  2. #17
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    "Ford beat Ferrari two years in a row, but I would prefer the Ferrari."

    I'll take the GT40.

    Gerry

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Jerry,

    Thanks for your input.

    I am aware of the importance of engraving on the bullet. I'm also aware that both Eley and Lapua, vary lot to lot, in their overall length. They even vary within the same lot.

    I do not know the depths that you say work with Eley or Lapua. Would you be willing to share those numbers in terms of chamber depth? Or perhaps engraving on the bullet.

    TKH (4628)
    Tony, I can only think it would be in the length, Lapua is much more consistent in length (per lot) and usually always longer than Eley. My 52D will shoot either one, but has a slight preference for Lapua, my best guess as to why, would be a little more engraving with the Lapua. It will also extract a live round with Eley, but not with Lapua. That tells me Lapua is seated better ( maybe ) in that particular chamber.

    George

  4. #19
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    I hesitate to name specific numbers as they are often mistaken because of variation in measurement methods. Lead is quite easily deformed. Each gunsmith will have his preferred chamber depth. When I have compared them, many are quite close to one of the 2 that I use. Neither is better suited to either ammo. Just my opinion.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry H View Post
    I hesitate to name specific numbers as they are often mistaken because of variation in measurement methods. Lead is quite easily deformed. Each gunsmith will have his preferred chamber depth. When I have compared them, many are quite close to one of the 2 that I use. Neither is better suited to either ammo. Just my opinion.
    Jerry,

    My experience is the same as yours. I can't see how to chamber to suit one brand of ammo rather than another.

    Thanks for your input.

    I have taken this thread off topic. I may try to continue this topic in another thread.

    TKH (4628)

  6. #21
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    Very interesting topic, BUT, there is often a but. Like Tony I have often wondered about the Lapua specific chambers and then I ponder how important, if at all when you consider how many guns are competing that were likely chambered well before Lapua really gained in recent popularity. From what I know, these, guns chambered largely for ELEY, most using various depths, performing great with Lapua.
    Kind of begs the question Harper is floating. I suspect his guns have zero issue shooting Lapua.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry H View Post
    I hesitate to name specific numbers as they are often mistaken because of variation in measurement methods. Lead is quite easily deformed. Each gunsmith will have his preferred chamber depth. When I have compared them, many are quite close to one of the 2 that I use. Neither is better suited to either ammo. Just my opinion.
    Interesting, however, you may or may not be aware that more than one accomplished smith has zero specific length and varies chambers according to barrel and chamber fouling, within a working range.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Jerry,

    Thanks for your input.

    I am aware of the importance of engraving on the bullet. I'm also aware that both Eley and Lapua, vary lot to lot, in their overall length. They even vary within the same lot.

    I do not know the depths that you say work with Eley or Lapua. Would you be willing to share those numbers in terms of chamber depth? Or perhaps engraving on the bullet.

    TKH (4628)
    Tony,
    I have watched you shoot X-Act very well.
    What is the engraving depth you use?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
    Tony,
    I have watched you shoot X-Act very well.
    What is the engraving depth you use?
    I'm going to start another thread on chambering.

    Not that I know how to do it but to see what others think.

    TKH (4628)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    Cut your loss Butch…l.call Jerry now, especially if stocker can switch up for a 2500 action.
    Is or was a RF shooter named Joe Besche? What equipment did he shoot?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    Is or was a RF shooter named Joe Besche? What equipment did he shoot?
    Butch,

    See post 8 and 12 in this thread. Joe Besche is a great shooter that has won many ARA events shooting a heavily modified Anschutz.

    He is an exception to the rule. Joe could probably win shooting a J.C. Higgins if he wanted to.

    TKH (4628

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Butch,

    See post 8 and 12 in this thread. Joe Besche is a great shooter that has won many ARA events shooting a heavily modified Anschutz.

    He is an exception to the rule. Joe could probably win shooting a J.C. Higgins if he wanted to.

    TKH (4628
    Tony, what is a heavily modified Anschutz? Hard to beat their triggers, maybe a new barrel, and I guess attention to the bolt, firing pin and so forth. Do you know if he chose the Anschutz to prove a point or did he see something in it that he thought best.
    Of course I will probably not shoot other than our club shoots. They are highly competitive with full on 2500x-Rotex to many Anschutz, Walthers, 40x, and so forth.
    It is all fun and I'm not questioning your ability as you are on top of the RF game.
    Thanks Tony.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Butch,

    See post 8 and 12 in this thread. Joe Besche is a great shooter that has won many ARA events shooting a heavily modified Anschutz.

    He is an exception to the rule. Joe could probably win shooting a J.C. Higgins if he wanted to.

    TKH (4628
    Well, not to throw fuel on the fire and I don't know how Joe would do with a J.C. Higgins, but.......Joe has been messing around with a Suhl recently. He 'DIY' modified the factory stock and I personally don't know what, or by who, other mods are. I do know he finished second in the ARA Kansas State tournament with it in October in nasty conditions. Parsons beat him, but Larry also drew the best bench on the range that day and we did not rotate. Joe did not have a favorable bench draw, not by a long shot. I did see Joe shooting the same rifle over the Indoor Nationals festivities, but also saw him with his familiar Annie.

    Scott

  14. #29
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    Tony, what is a heavily modified Anschutz? Hard to beat their triggers, maybe a new barrel, and I guess attention to the bolt, firing pin and so forth. Do you know if he chose the Anschutz to prove a point or did he see something in it that he thought best.
    Of course I will probably not shoot other than our club shoots. They are highly competitive with full on 2500x-Rotex to many Anschutz, Walthers, 40x, and so forth.
    It is all fun and I'm not questioning your ability as you are on top of the RF game.
    Thanks Tony.
    Butch,

    I don't know what all has been done to Joe's rifle, but I would bet it has been threaded. This is a common mod for the Model 54 Anschutz if being used for RFBR.

    I agree those Anschutz 5018 triggers were great in their day. But have you had the opportunity to shoot Flavio Fare triggers?

    Their first version of the Remington pattern trigger was great, much better than a Jewell. I thought they were also better than the Bix and Andy.

    Then about two years ago they came out with their Whisper trigger. This trigger is unbelievable.

    There is a you tube video showing a guy blowing on the trigger and firing the rifle, then slamming the bolt open and closed and not slam firing the rifle.

    That model was known as the 2.0.

    There is yet another new Flavio Fare trigger and it is known as the mod. 2.1. I just installed one yesterday and it is even better.

    Easy to set up. The adjustment screws have nylon stops and feel very positive. The return spring has been changed, and they say it exerts even less upward pressure on the bolt.

    I know you came from a centerfire background, so I'll ask you this question. Would you build a new Remington .222 bench rifle for point blank benchrest, or would you go with a 6 PPC?

    TKH (4628)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by tonykharper; 12-10-2021 at 12:31 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Butch,

    I don't know what all has been done to Joe's rifle, but I would bet it has been threaded. This is a common mod for the Model 54 Anschutz if being used for RFBR.

    I agree those Anschutz 5018 triggers were great in their day. But have you had the opportunity to shoot Flavio Fare triggers?

    Their first version of the Remington pattern trigger was great, much better than a Jewell. I thought they were also better than the Bix and Andy.

    Then about two years ago they came out with their Whisper trigger. This trigger is unbelievable.

    There is a you tube video showing a guy blowing on the trigger and firing the rifle, then slamming the bolt open and closed and not slam firing the rifle.

    That model was known as the 2.0.

    There is yet another new Flavio Fare trigger and it is known as the mod. 2.1. I just installed one yesterday and it is even better.

    Easy to set up. The adjustment screws have nylon stops and feel very positive. The return spring has been changed, and they say it exerts even less upward pressure on the bolt.

    I know you came from a centerfire background, so I'll ask you this question. Would you build a new Remington .222 bench rifle for point blank benchrest, or would you go with a 6 PPC?

    TKH (4628)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2.1 trigger.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	26.6 KB 
ID:	25120
    Butch,

    I just realized I'm trying to tell you how to spend your money, and that is certainly not my place. It took me awhile to realize this.

    I apologize. I assure you my motivation was only to stop you from following the path many others including myself have taken.

    I started RFBR with a Russian 3P rifle, and since I've had Anschutz, Remington 37, Remington 40X, Time Precision, Hall, Flash Turbo, 10X (all versions), Stiller 2500 and Di Orio Turbos.

    I could have saved a lot of time and money if someone would have told me to start with a Turbo or a 2500. Not sure I would have listened but I'm hardheaded.

    Again, I apologize. You do you and I'll try to stay in my lane.

    TKH (4628)

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