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Thread: another thought problem, NOT gun related

  1. #46
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    you 2 are babe's in the woods....
    been there done that...several times
    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    OK Hunter, I live for surprises.

    You've surprised me

    thank you

    LOL

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmithsr View Post
    you 2 are babe's in the woods....
    been there done that...several times
    Mike you are the King of banned.

  3. #48
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    Cool

    [QUOTEYOUR RIGHT BUT ONLY AS I DESCRIBE IT.=BillBrawand;846266]only if wind comes over or under the flaigs do you get high or low with diagonal.

    Actually Bill, it happens on any range at any point on the range. A bullet "blown" to the left will always rise and a bullet "blown" to the right will always fall. It's the same mechanism as "spindrift" although few people ever connect the two, including our current crop of so-called "professional ballisticians" in the world.

    LOL, lotta' "quotes" in there cuz a lotta' disagreement on the verbiage...... kinda' like my use of "catch a balloon" to illustrate a point. Words just tend to set certain folks' teeth on edge.

    Rush said "words mean things"

    50% of the population says "words are mean things"

    Here's a diagram to illustrate the wind-rise effect

    Attachment 24848

    LOL, this guy calls it "vector wind effect"...... which clearly illustrates that even though he SEES it, he has no idea from whence it comes, what drives it nor how it works........ [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdean View Post
    Mike you are the King of banned.
    "I'd never join a club that would have me"

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilGunsmith View Post
    But does this only apply to right hand twist barrels? Would a left hand twist reverse the rules? More to ponder on.

    so when I was much younger and more theoretical and once I understood that the Coriolis Effect is ALWAYS to the right where I shoot, regardless of direction.....I called some cut-rifling barrel makers about making some left-twist barrels because on paper I could use Coriolis to counteract spin drift in the northern hemisphere (you'se Ozzies get to cheat, right hand twist does counter Coriolis Dow'nunder)

    As per usual I got laffed outa' town

    Then I started shooting long range and realized I was misguided, losing a dollar chasing a dime.... actually worse, spending dollars and getting abso-friggin-lutely NOTHING in return. I still spend dollars for 1/10moa and consider it well spent, but Coriolis and spin drift ain't worth NUTTIN'!! And the number of folks who believe it's affecting them, and don't even have a level on their rifle is staggering.... BTDTGTTS

    My brother in law and myself were convinced at one time that we'd actually witnessed spin drift shooting down off a hillside when the wishes were just hanging in the air, but whether we did or not is completely immaterial to me now, when I actually CAN dial a grapefruit at 1376 yds I realize that spin drift, Coriolis, Eotvos, gravitational anomolies and Magnus's are keyboard effects, not things that'll help me hit stuff.

    But lift at 100/200 is a spindrift that DOES affect my holds

  6. #51
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    But does this only apply to right hand twist barrels? Would a left hand twist reverse the rules? More to ponder on.
    YOU DO NOT GET HIGH AND LOW SHOTS FROM A STRAIGT CROSS WIND.DIFFERNT ANGLES GIVE YOU THAT.

    yes[/QUOTE]

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBrawand View Post
    YOU DO NOT GET HIGH AND LOW SHOTS FROM A STRAIGT CROSS WIND.DIFFERNT ANGLES GIVE YOU THAT.

    yes
    [/QUOTE]

    The voice of experience....

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #53
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    Cool

    The voice of experience....

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	24853[/QUOTE] THANKS BILL.

  9. #54
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    Gyroscopic Precession

    Just to throw another hat in the ring.

    Could not Gyroscopic Precession https://science.howstuffworks.com/gyroscope.htm be a reason for the deviation of a projectile when displaced by an external force?

    After all, our projectiles are spinning just like a gyroscope. Imagine that they are just like a spinning top with the point facing towards the target.

    When an external force (wind in the context of this discussion) attempts to displace our spinning projectile sideways, the resultant deviation is actually at 90° to the applied force.

    This raises a few interesting points:

    The deviation is dependent upon the magnitude of the applied force (wind velocity).
    The deviation is dependent upon the rate of spin (rifling twist).
    The direction of the deviation is dependent upon the direction of spin and the axis that the displacing force is applied to.

    Also maybe why a barrel and projectile with the minimum twist rate (to stabilise the projectile) are considered to be the most accurate.

    Anyhow, that's my 5¢ worth and I only included it as I have never seen this aspect discussed before.


    Regards * doggie *

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by doghunter View Post
    Just to throw another hat in the ring.

    Could not Gyroscopic Precession https://science.howstuffworks.com/gyroscope.htm be a reason for the deviation of a projectile when displaced by an external force?

    After all, our projectiles are spinning just like a gyroscope. Imagine that they are just like a spinning top with the point facing towards the target.

    When an external force (wind in the context of this discussion) attempts to displace our spinning projectile sideways, the resultant deviation is actually at 90° to the applied force.

    This raises a few interesting points:

    The deviation is dependent upon the magnitude of the applied force (wind velocity).
    The deviation is dependent upon the rate of spin (rifling twist).
    The direction of the deviation is dependent upon the direction of spin and the axis that the displacing force is applied to.

    Also maybe why a barrel and projectile with the minimum twist rate (to stabilise the projectile) are considered to be the most accurate.

    Anyhow, that's my 5¢ worth and I only included it as I have never seen this aspect discussed before.


    Regards * doggie *
    Yes.

    Gene Beggs did some interesting experiments in this regard back in the days (months) (years) we spent trying to understand bullet flight.

    here, in no particular order are some threads from then;
    http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...ve-bore-s-axis
    http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...-ballisticians
    http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...-ballisticians

    And I won't even include The Mother Of All Wind Drift Threads in the interest of brevity (I think it went 141 posts)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by doghunter View Post
    Just to throw another hat in the ring.

    Could not Gyroscopic Precession https://science.howstuffworks.com/gyroscope.htm be a reason for the deviation of a projectile when displaced by an external force?

    After all, our projectiles are spinning just like a gyroscope. Imagine that they are just like a spinning top with the point facing towards the target.

    When an external force (wind in the context of this discussion) attempts to displace our spinning projectile sideways, the resultant deviation is actually at 90° to the applied force.

    This raises a few interesting points:

    The deviation is dependent upon the magnitude of the applied force (wind velocity).
    The deviation is dependent upon the rate of spin (rifling twist).
    The direction of the deviation is dependent upon the direction of spin and the axis that the displacing force is applied to.

    Also maybe why a barrel and projectile with the minimum twist rate (to stabilise the projectile) are considered to be the most accurate.

    Anyhow, that's my 5¢ worth and I only included it as I have never seen this aspect discussed before.


    Regards * doggie *
    Finally! Also left hand twist will be opposite of right hand twist. Look at a swash plate on a helicopter.
    Bill

  12. #57
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    and lest we forget....DWFTTW

    Even iceboats..... NOPE.... would seriously defy the laws of physics anecdotal "claims" notwithstanding

    https://www.wired.com/2008/12/physic...fttw-vehicles/
    https://www.wired.com/2008/12/dwfttw...aga-continues/
    https://www.physicsforums.com/thread...dwfttw.562993/

  13. #58
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    Finally……
    Someone who has more free time than the hard working concrete man from Washington…State, that is.
    splain to me the Americas Cup boats doing 29 knots downwind while the wind speed was recorded as 8.8 knots.
    Good day. I’m done. Wallow in your stubbornness.

  14. #59
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    Francis, Its a miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by FBecigneul View Post
    Finally……
    Someone who has more free time than the hard working concrete man from Washington…State, that is.
    splain to me the Americas Cup boats doing 29 knots downwind while the wind speed was recorded as 8.8 knots.
    Good day. I’m done. Wallow in your stubbornness.
    Kinda like that shot came thru the target the wrong way down at Mickeys. If my memory serves, it was your brothers target

  15. #60
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    My son’s target. Never did figure that one out. Those rebels were shooting back at us northerners is all I could figure.

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