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Thread: Better rifle setup and SHOOTER setup for load development from a bench?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    29

    Cool

    I would like to share my appreciation for this thread getting started.

    Thank you Jim for asking the questions you did to start this thread, which lead to Vera replying and allowing me to be aware of her web site.

    And, thank you Vera for getting involved and providing information that may help Jim and others, including me. I wasn't aware of your web site before, but I am now and have added it as one of my resources.

    Thanks all.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    18
    Tony Boyer is one of the most well known Benchrest shooter champions of all time.I have now read most of the book he published back in 2010. It is, despite its 11 year age, fantastic, largely because it covers fundamentals, not fads, and covers ALL the fundamentals.

    I read it not because I want to be a Benchrest shooter, although F-Class, “Belly Benchrest”, which I want to pursue, IS awfully close in basic concept to “Score” Benchrest (versus “Group” Benchrest). Rather I read it so that I can use Benchrest techniques to do a better job of testing loads, by factoring my human shooter shortcomings out of the testing as much as is possible.

    I got the information I needed from the book on such topics as sitting position, importance of the stool placement and height, free recoil versus different holds, equipment needed, equipment setup, minimizing manipulation or pressuring of the rifle, sight picture fundamentals, and conditions monitoring and management.

    But what was truly impressive is that the book equips a raw novice with ALL the preparatory knowledge he needs to start shooting Benchrest, leaving only the actual implementation and practice to learn, develop, and practice on his own. Boyle covers EVERYTHING, and is modest enough to say, repeatedly, that “this works for me but others use these different methods successfully”.

    Anyone who reads the entire book will be reasonably well equipped to attend his first Benchrest meet, and know what to study in the equipment and techniques of other Benchrest shooters, and know how to not make a complete fool of himself at his first match.

    I can see why this book is difficult to find “in stock” anywhere most of the time.

    It’s also shown me how elegant Benchrest shooting actually is when done right, and makes me think about entering Benchrest matches in the future, even without having a true Benchrest rifle, just for the fun of it.

    The book was so good that I felt I just had to say something about it here in this thread. It finally answered most of my questions about how to shoot better groups via Benchrest techniques.

    Jim G

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poetry, Tex.
    Posts
    7,013
    Quote Originally Posted by JimGnitecki View Post
    Tony Boyer is one of the most well known Benchrest shooter champions of all time.I have now read most of the book he published back in 2010. It is, despite its 11 year age, fantastic, largely because it covers fundamentals, not fads, and covers ALL the fundamentals.

    I read it not because I want to be a Benchrest shooter, although F-Class, “Belly Benchrest”, which I want to pursue, IS awfully close in basic concept to “Score” Benchrest (versus “Group” Benchrest). Rather I read it so that I can use Benchrest techniques to do a better job of testing loads, by factoring my human shooter shortcomings out of the testing as much as is possible.

    I got the information I needed from the book on such topics as sitting position, importance of the stool placement and height, free recoil versus different holds, equipment needed, equipment setup, minimizing manipulation or pressuring of the rifle, sight picture fundamentals, and conditions monitoring and management.

    But what was truly impressive is that the book equips a raw novice with ALL the preparatory knowledge he needs to start shooting Benchrest, leaving only the actual implementation and practice to learn, develop, and practice on his own. Boyle covers EVERYTHING, and is modest enough to say, repeatedly, that “this works for me but others use these different methods successfully”.

    Anyone who reads the entire book will be reasonably well equipped to attend his first Benchrest meet, and know what to study in the equipment and techniques of other Benchrest shooters, and know how to not make a complete fool of himself at his first match.

    I can see why this book is difficult to find “in stock” anywhere most of the time.

    It’s also shown me how elegant Benchrest shooting actually is when done right, and makes me think about entering Benchrest matches in the future, even without having a true Benchrest rifle, just for the fun of it.

    The book was so good that I felt I just had to say something about it here in this thread. It finally answered most of my questions about how to shoot better groups via Benchrest techniques.

    Jim G
    Jim, I've known Tony for many years. He is by and far the greatest BR shooter in our World. Yes I have his book. I traveled to Mickey Coleman's place in Alabama for shooting lessons with Tony many years ago.
    A small thing that impressed me most when Tony said he was going to sit in front of the adjacent bench facing me. He said he wanted to study my bench habits. He had a target and a pencil in his hand. I was shooting 200yds as we had very little condition. After each shot he made a mark on the target that he had in hand. He only watched me and never looked down range. After I was done he moved close and showed me what he had put on his target. He had drawn my shots perfectly, though the actual group was a little different in size. I asked how did he know that my first shot was a little high? Tony said I put a little thumb pressure on the top of the butt. The next shot was high and right. That was the result of thumb pressure and a little pressure from my hand on the butt. He knew where all 5 of my shots printed by watching me. Oh, my 2 sighters before the group were in the mothball.
    I believe the best BR shooting book is by Mike Ratigan. Extreme Rifle Accuracy

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post

    . . .

    I believe the best BR shooting book is by Mike Ratigan. Extreme Rifle Accuracy
    I just found the Ratigan book at Sinclair (Brownells) and ordered it. Thank-you for the referall to it.

    Jim G

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lower Dakota Territory
    Posts
    2,239
    Jim, one thing I've noticed is how excessively long most stocks are in L.O.P., relative to the individual shooter. If you're 5'7" tall and the stock has a 'standard' 13.5" L.O.P., I can guarantee that you have gun handling problems that will show up on the target.

    A excessive L.O.P. doesn't allow the shooter to get behind the gun properly. Subsequently, the shoulder angle become more acute and that invites a whole bunch of other gun handling issues.

    A close second to that is incorrect scope height.

    Both of these come after Rule #1, which is using wind flags.

    Good shootin'. -Al

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Nyhus View Post
    Jim, one thing I've noticed is how excessively long most stocks are in L.O.P., relative to the individual shooter. If you're 5'7" tall and the stock has a 'standard' 13.5" L.O.P., I can guarantee that you have gun handling problems that will show up on the target.

    A excessive L.O.P. doesn't allow the shooter to get behind the gun properly. Subsequently, the shoulder angle become more acute and that invites a whole bunch of other gun handling issues.

    A close second to that is incorrect scope height.

    Both of these come after Rule #1, which is using wind flags.

    Good shootin'. -Al
    Al, your comment on length of pull is a good one. I am indeed only 5'7" in height. But, until I can find a local Benchrester to critique my shooting position ergonomics, I am unable to investigate and make adjsutments. In addition, right now, our local range is closed due to the extreme fire hazard due to draught. We actually had a small fire on the range which prompted the closure a week or 2 ago, just before the club closed the range.

    Your mention of scope height is also good. When seeking the best scope longitudinal position and height, I actually found that I need to use a base with integral "High" rings, because of the position of my cheekbones. When I tried multiple sets of borrowed rings first, the low and mid height rings were simply too low, and my cheekbone was hitting the stock before I could align my eye to the scope in any naturally comfortable position. The bottom of my objective lens is a good 3/8 inch above the barrel, and NEEDS to be there for me to get a natural and comfortable and consistently repeatable sight picture.

    Jim G

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SE Nebraska
    Posts
    425
    Mr. Gnitecki. I just finished up this write up and video (inspired by your original question and my non-answer). I hope you can find one or two things that you can apply to your current setup. Hope all is well. https://www.ctdshooting.com/post/ben...n-and-accuracy

    Jason Stanley

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    Mr. Gnitecki. I just finished up this write up and video (inspired by your original question and my non-answer). I hope you can find one or two things that you can apply to your current setup. Hope all is well. https://www.ctdshooting.com/post/ben...n-and-accuracy

    Jason Stanley
    THANK-YOU, Jason! I have flagged your post and will read it tomorrow! (Just got back from an e-mountain bike ride, so too tired to focus tonight!).

    Jim G

    edit: I recovered from the bike ride and read your writeup.It is VERY helpful. I especially like the "marked rope" idea. I have also bought 2 benchrest books recently. I have finished reading Tony Boyer's book (excellent) and have just started Mike Ratigan's book (VERY, VERY packed with details - each sentence merits extended thought!).

    I have noted that all3 of you talked about marking up the shooting bench. This seems like at some pointm the ebnches become too busy to read! I have started using masking tape on the benchtop at the local range. That is working for me!

    Our range is closed right now (3 weeks so far) due to the extreme fire hazard in our area due to lack of rain. Before it was closed, we had a small fire, which was quickly put out, but prompted the closure. No rain in the forecast at this point. So, no practicing for a while . . .

    Jim G
    Last edited by JimGnitecki; 08-09-2021 at 12:10 AM.

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