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Thread: Practice versus match ammo.

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    91
    Quote Originally Posted by rkittine View Post
    When I buy .22 RF Match Ammo I get a list of the lots currently in stock by the supplier I will be using (usually the same one all the time). I will then buy a few boxes from each lot that has plenty of inventory. Why get some ammo that shoots really well and not be able to get more. Then as soon as I get it, I shoot targets and find out which lot of which brand works the best, that has plenty of inventory and order in a major supply. Unfortunately if you get really serious about this it gets really expensive, but not always in the cost per box, just the amount you lay out to get enough to make a difference.

    Bob
    The above, for a newbie (our OP), sheds more light on testing ammo. For others, that seriously shoot sanctioned RFBR matches, the above post is not breaking news. Since the OP has not stated his goals, or type, of RFBR matches he intends on shooting, I kept my original post to speak to the 'flavor' of his post. When shooters ask questions about brand types and cost, it is fairly obvious they are not aware of specific lot testing.

    Indeed when a good lot comes up it will, as a rule of thumb, shoot good/great, in many different rifles. Time is of the essence in testing/procuring ammo as soon as possible. Before I learned that, I missed out on several really good lots that I drug my heals on getting tested, only to find out that one great one of the lots I ordered was gone after I got them tested.

    When selecting lots, you must do your homework. The buying of lots that have a bunch of stock can be satisfying in the fact that there may be inventory when you purchase after testing, but it could also indicate the lots aren't that good as well. Doing your homework, you need to watch inventories as new shipments (lots) come in. Anyone who is deep into the game has seen lots of good ammo sell out in just a few days. Sometimes catching a lot that has lesser quantity is better to test, as long as it is done quickly, and you may find considerably better ammo than testing the lots that are left over. They are most likely still in stock for a reason.

    Lapua protects the lots that are allocated for the test centers. You have to test in their facility to buy those lots. Now, was I surprised when the good lot I found there was down to 7 bricks of inventory?......not at all. It was a depleted inventory lot for a reason. Getting 7 bricks was better than getting none of it.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    61
    So when I'm testing ammo is one box per type & lot good enough? Do you shoot (10) 5 shot groups and average them to determine what shoots well? I just got my new/used custom Anschutz 1913 bench rifle but still waiting for my Golden Eagle scope and need to get some Kelbly rings and a rest ordered. What do you consider to be good groups for a semi-competitive rifle? I was hoping to get consistent 1/4" grouping at 50 with good ammo.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    upstate, N.Y.
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    2,712
    Quote Originally Posted by zanemoseley View Post
    So when I'm testing ammo is one box per type & lot good enough? Do you shoot (10) 5 shot groups and average them to determine what shoots well? I just got my new/used custom Anschutz 1913 bench rifle but still waiting for my Golden Eagle scope and need to get some Kelbly rings and a rest ordered. What do you consider to be good groups for a semi-competitive rifle? I was hoping to get consistent 1/4" grouping at 50 with good ammo.
    Lots of custom built bench guns struggle with 1/4" consistency, a 1913 will generally be well behind that.
    Unless you are going to be exclusively shooting fun, or club stuff you might want to rethink the rifle.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    211
    would a professional race driver run practice laps with a bum engine or Kmart tires??

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    91
    zanemoseley, I do not consider one box enough. Minimum 2 boxes per rifle, for budget conscious testing. After getting to know a rifle/barrel combo, you get a better idea of what to expect when testing.

    Tim has brought up a good point as well, accuracy potential in the real world. Several questions come to mind here. I have seen several posts you have made here and elsewhere. I don't recall you stating your type/level of RFBR you are interested in, or the what the level of custom work that has been done to your Annie. Hoping to shoot ARA, IR50, or ABRA Heavy Outlaw and hoping to be competitive? Just shooting club/fun matches at a local club? Rifle has custom barrel, bedded in a BR stock, barrel tuner, etc...? I do recall you mentioned somewhere you have shot prone or 3P in the past.

    When testing at a tunnel, at or below 13mm outside (gross) groups, consistently, are in the ball park of being pretty darn good. 25.4mm per inch, so at or a little below 1/2" gross measured. This would be using several 10 shot groups, which is typical at both Eley and Lapua test tunnels. As Tim has pointed out, that's not that easy to achieve.

    More information on your goals would be helpful. Just the fact you are interested in shooting RFBR, no matter the level, will keep myself and many others involved in the conversation with better information to reach your goals.

    Scott

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    61
    I will be shooting club and small local matches, no intention to shoot state, regional or national matches. The 1913 was totally rebuilt by Bill Myers before he passed, the entire action was sleeved in aluminum with integrated scope rail for ridgidity, custom laminate stock was fit with bedding and has a Shilen barrel and Ezell PDT tuner. It's not a brand new $4k custom rifle but should get my feet wet and might get the occasional 3/16"-1/4" group. Between buying the rifle, Golden Eagle scope and a quality front rest it's expensive enough before I even get to buying ammo. Felt like I got a decent deal on the rifle so if I get hooked I can likely get all or most of my money back to put toward a new custom build.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    61
    Some matches around here have 20+ people but aren't sanctioned, I think others are ARA. I just need to get shooting at this point and attend some matches when the virus blows over. I've been emailing some local match directors. They're all single gun events, no spotter rifle required. It's honestly a bit confusing with all the different sanctioning bodies, sanctioned versus non sanctioned matches, different targets, some allow 1 piece rests and some don't, different rifle requirements.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    2,509
    Just shoot what your gun likes and go shoot. After all, you don't care if you win anyway

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    upstate, N.Y.
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    2,712
    Quote Originally Posted by zanemoseley View Post
    I will be shooting club and small local matches, no intention to shoot state, regional or national matches. The 1913 was totally rebuilt by Bill Myers before he passed, the entire action was sleeved in aluminum with integrated scope rail for ridgidity, custom laminate stock was fit with bedding and has a Shilen barrel and Ezell PDT tuner. It's not a brand new $4k custom rifle but should get my feet wet and might get the occasional 3/16"-1/4" group. Between buying the rifle, Golden Eagle scope and a quality front rest it's expensive enough before I even get to buying ammo. Felt like I got a decent deal on the rifle so if I get hooked I can likely get all or most of my money back to put toward a new custom build.
    Well that's a far better proposition, should be OK.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by zanemoseley View Post
    Some matches around here have 20+ people but aren't sanctioned, I think others are ARA. I just need to get shooting at this point and attend some matches when the virus blows over. I've been emailing some local match directors. They're all single gun events, no spotter rifle required. It's honestly a bit confusing with all the different sanctioning bodies, sanctioned versus non sanctioned matches, different targets, some allow 1 piece rests and some don't, different rifle requirements.
    Ah, now we have more information. You are doing just fine and your questions are posted with a very healthy attitude towards getting good advise. I have seen your rest posts and defiantly get a two piece rest. My rookie year in ARA placed me 3rd in Iowa, not a particular hot spot of RFBR shooting but there are a couple of very good shooters there, using a 2 piece rest. A two piece will serve more opportunities to shoot than a one piece, simply because of different rules in different situations.

    As you get more experience, the differences in sanctioned, non-sanctioned, and club rules will get easier. Don't worry about the confusion, it will get better, promise! Also, initial cost of getting started can be daunting. I had my original rest set up and flags before I started shooting sanctioned, or organised, RFBR matches. My big cost was buying a new rifle built by a competitive smith.

    Test ammo, to the best of your budget, and start shooting matches when the pandemic allows. Keep asking questions in the same demeanor you do now. A lot of guys with experience are turned off by people who ask questions and then want to argue about answers. I see none of that with you. From what you have now explained is your objective, I think you are starting with a sound equipment base and hopefully you will stick with it and learn more from getting match experience and rubbing elbows, when elbow rubbing is appropriate again, with other shooters at matches.

    Welcome to the rabbit hole! Just remember, no one gets paid anything to shoot RFBR, it's a game for fun and personal challenge. Also, you control how deep you want to go down that hole!

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    61
    Thanks for the advice. I'm looking forward to start shooting. I know all about going down a rabbit hole, I'm deep with NRA bullseye and know how the costs add up especially with custom builds which I have a few. I've had good results with informal F class shooting with a slightly improved Savage 12br in 6br but this rimfire game seems very focused on extremely high quality equipment to get top level results, I'm trying to temper my expectations and hopefully have a lot of fun

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    upstate, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,712
    Quote Originally Posted by zanemoseley View Post
    Thanks for the advice. I'm looking forward to start shooting. I know all about going down a rabbit hole, I'm deep with NRA bullseye and know how the costs add up especially with custom builds which I have a few. I've had good results with informal F class shooting with a slightly improved Savage 12br in 6br but this rimfire game seems very focused on extremely high quality equipment to get top level results, I'm trying to temper my expectations and hopefully have a lot of fun
    Well, that there is the right attitude.
    Indeed the RF bench game, just like the CF game is an arms race, no question. When I started, lo those many years back, it was actually cheaper to boot......that was about 12 rifles ago, but I enjoy it, don't go nuts and try to remain objective.
    It is also something to enjoy at a personal level, whatever that may be......go for it.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    North Central Pa
    Posts
    207

    Years ago

    It was less expensive and less disposable income.

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