Tuners!!!!

[linekin]

I don't think anything distracts the great shooters. A naked lady could be dancing on top of the bench next to them & I doubt they'd notice. You've seen them, the concentration is incredible.
If the range has a problem with their benches that any little disturbance in the bench bothers the guys or gals next to them then they need to fix the benches. Period.
If you're disturbed by what someone else is doing to their tuner next to you then you need to work on you.
We've all got alot invested in this & should be allowed to try & get the best results we can. Whether successful or not. Discretely of course.

Keith

[tim]

Keith, always nice to get that personal interpretation of the rules( as it applies to IR50 anyway), however, maybe you should read it, it’s pretty clear and not very subjective.
There are plenty of great shooters who want and expect adherence to it.
You never shot anywhere with Billy Myers or his wife, if you were behind him carrying on a conversation, you likely wouldn't do it twice.
Sure it’s possible to discreetly move a tuner. Some guys cannot get up from their seat without sounding like they’re moving a piano.
What you seem to miss is that a rule like this is designed for the lowest common denominator not the highest. That’s why it’s a rule.

Re read Kenny’s post, a good approach as well as trying to stay within the rule.

[mwezell]

Keith, always nice to get that personal interpretation of the rules( as it applies to IR50 anyway), however, maybe you should read it, it’s pretty clear and not very subjective.
There are plenty of great shooters who want and expect adherence to it.
You never shot anywhere with Billy Myers or his wife, if you were behind him carrying on a conversation, you likely wouldn't do it twice.
Sure it’s possible to discreetly move a tuner. Some guys cannot get up from their seat without sounding like they’re moving a piano.
What you seem to miss is that a rule like this is designed for the lowest common denominator not the highest. That’s why it’s a rule.

Re read Kenny’s post, a good approach as well as trying to stay within the rule.

Please post the rule for us to see. Does the rule forbid bending over and picking something up off of the floor also? IMO, people that never touch a tuner are under a false impression that a "tuner twister" is constantly fooling with his tuner. Some might but they are on the other end of the spectrum, in terms of how to properly use a tuner.
IME, there are whole days that you may never move a tuner. There are also days where I might move it a couple of times.
As with any rule, some common sense has to be used. Stating that the guy or girl next to you can't compete differently than you do is just ludicrous at best and a terrible rule at worst. Even in rf, you still have someone else's gun going off only a short distance from your face. If that's not a problem but reaching over, forward, up, down or whatever..is...then the rule sux! You can always leave it at the match director's discretion as to what is being too obnoxious or not. Just be careful how you ask for such a rule to be enforced. It could be construed as simply overhearing someone talking discretely and well behind the benches, as too much. Is that what we want?

[tim]

IR 50 site, Rules, pg. 23, 8.7 Sportsmanship.
And essentially as the rule has always been interpreted, if it’s distracting to other shooters, they are not wrong, you are.
Myself, I advocate a little common sense, a guy standing/sitting quietly is not an issue to me , one who does it 5-6 times a card....that’s a problem, as in most things a little common sense and , maybe, a polite query to your neighbor before hand goes a long way.
Also, have you ever attended a match where a couple guys, not shooting that well, get up and start cranking on their tuner a few rotations one way, then the other ? You think all the twisters have a well studied scientific approach to the methodology ?
Rules, by and large, tend to be there to address the lowest common denominator not the highest.
Lastly, it’s not MY rule it is THE rule, and frankly, it is rarely been seen as a controversial one by anybody I ever heard of.

Just as in IBS where shooters are to remain absolutely quiet between commence fire and cease fire with nobody allowed anywhere near the line.

[Pete Wass]

anyone who is distracted by others when they are shooting isn't paying enough attention to their own windflags. Any experienced shooter who can't focus on their own space should try to train them self to be around others.

There is room in the IBS rules to allow tuner tweaking and the replacement of a broken down rifle if that should occur. Shooters are to sit quietly after they have finished firing, the rule sez.

Pete

[mwezell]

IR 50 site, Rules, pg. 23, 8.7 Sportsmanship.
And essentially as the rule has always been interpreted, if it’s distracting to other shooters, they are not wrong, you are.
Myself, I advocate a little common sense, a guy standing/sitting quietly is not an issue to me , one who does it 5-6 times a card....that’s a problem, as in most things a little common sense and , maybe, a polite query to your neighbor before hand goes a long way.
Also, have you ever attended a match where a couple guys, not shooting that well, get up and start cranking on their tuner a few rotations one way, then the other ? You think all the twisters have a well studied scientific approach to the methodology ?
Rules, by and large, tend to be there to address the lowest common denominator not the highest.
Lastly, it’s not MY rule it is THE rule, and frankly, it is rarely been seen as a controversial one by anybody I ever heard of.

Just as in IBS where shooters are to remain absolutely quiet between commence fire and cease fire with nobody allowed anywhere near the line.

So we agree that common sense should be applied and that I should not cry foul if I hear a noise or see something out of the corner of my eye, claiming it caused me to miss a dot. Am I understanding your position correctly or not?

[tim]

So we agree that common sense should be applied and that I should not cry foul if I hear a noise or see something out of the corner of my eye, claiming it caused me to miss a dot. Am I understanding your position correctly or not?

Yes, and I have never seen nor heard of any situation resembling that.
Usually somebody is inadvertently doing something and a simple mention after a card resolves the issue......that’s it.
These things take on a life of their own on forums, rarely seen in real world settings.
Most matches usually have some form of “ you cannot bother fellow shooters” without going nuts, don’t they.
About the only time I have seen attention to the rule that was a bit much, a couple places do not allow you to leave the bench until cease fire is called which is also no huge deal.

[mwezell]

Yes, and I have never seen nor heard of any situation resembling that.
Usually somebody is inadvertently doing something and a simple mention after a card resolves the issue......that’s it.
These things take on a life of their own on forums, rarely seen in real world settings.
Most matches usually have some form of “ you cannot bother fellow shooters” without going nuts, don’t they.

That takes us back to using common sense. It seems logical that if tuners are allowed, that using them to tune would also be allowed. Just common sense.

[tim]

That takes us back to using common sense. It seems logical that if tuners are allowed, that using them to tune would also be allowed. Just common sense.

That’s absolutely right, just what I did.....a couple years ago.

[Pete Wass]

I don't think anything distracts the great shooters. A naked lady could be dancing on top of the bench next to them & I doubt they'd notice. You've seen them, the concentration is incredible.
If the range has a problem with their benches that any little disturbance in the bench bothers the guys or gals next to them then they need to fix the benches. Period.
If you're disturbed by what someone else is doing to their tuner next to you then you need to work on you.
We've all got alot invested in this & should be allowed to try & get the best results we can. Whether successful or not. Discretely of course.

Keith

seem to try to make thing as difficult as they can for everyone else. I agree 200 percent with what you say here. Some folks need to work on themselves a lot! The rest of us grew a pair a long time ago.

Pete

[tim]

seem to try to make thing as difficult as they can for everyone else. I agree 200 percent with what you say here. Some folks need to work on themselves a lot! The rest of us grew a pair a long time ago.

Pete

Pete, didn't you retire from this to become a kids birthday clown or some such ?

[mwezell]

Pete, didn't you retire from this to become a kids birthday clown or some such ?

Lol!!

[FBecigneul]

Speaking of rules. Showing disrespect for another on this forum is a breach of the rules, Tim.
I haven’t seen a rule that states you can’t turn the tuner during a card, match, tournament. And if you can’t twist a tuner why not just abolish tuners? Fat chance of that. I guess you can just obey and see everyone else obey the rules you choose to enforce. And don’t speed on your way to and from the range. That’s a rule too. Higher up God says Thou shalt not covet.

[tim]

Speaking of rules. Showing disrespect for another on this forum is a breach of the rules, Tim.
I haven’t seen a rule that states you can’t turn the tuner during a card, match, tournament. And if you can’t twist a tuner why not just abolish tuners? Fat chance of that. I guess you can just obey and see everyone else obey the rules you choose to enforce. And don’t speed on your way to and from the range. That’s a rule too. Higher up God says Thou shalt not covet.

Francis, always great to hear from the one guy that’s never shot a rimfire match in his life.
I’m sorry, I thought I heard the birthday clown thing.....could be wrong.

Francis, you recently switch up on a couple prescriptions ???

[FBecigneul]

Tim, Did you know that Henry The Navigator never went to sea and yet he designed the Sixteen Point Compass Rose, plotted many ocean routes, and sent men out in search of the New World.
The only difference in rimfire and centerfire is the noise level.
And no Mr. Pharmacist, I’m still taking my thyroid pill. Thanks for your concern.