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Thread: Tuners!!!!

  1. #1
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    Tuners!!!!

    There has been a lot of discussion about tuners on another channel lately.

    These discussions often spawn a new batch of what has been called. "Jack in the box tuner twisters" (Thanks BH for the term)

    I know this post will rub many the wrong way but it is written with good intentions.

    There is a time to twist tuners, and there is a time not to. Twist away until your heart is content at home, on the range, in your back yard, wherever.

    But when you are at a match, and you have other shooters beside you please don't do it.

    Show up at a match with your rifle ready to shoot. I know this isn't always possible, you may need to check your zero, but finding the "best tune, or even a better tune" during the time allotted for a target just isn't good.

    Remember the clock is running, and each time you turn that tuner you lose your zero. The hole you were in just got deeper. Not only are you looking for a better tune, you also have to re zero, and you have less time to do it.

    I know you are hoping you will dial that tuner just a click or two, and all of a sudden everything will be great, but I promise you, that doesn't often happen.

    Reaching up and turning that tuner distracts shooters on both sides of you. In doors, where the benches are close it is really bad.

    In the long run it is better to shoot it as you brought it or find another lot of ammo. Even changing lot numbers has a down side, but not as deep as dialing that tuner.

    TKH
    Last edited by tonykharper; 08-06-2019 at 11:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    Have to disagree to some extent. If a shooter beside you distracts you when twisting a tuner a click or two then you are not concentrating on your own shooting enough. It's important to not let whats going on around you distract you from paying attention to your shooting.
    ALso, in my experience it's helpul at times during a match to move the tuner a click or to to keep up with changing conditions. It's my alloted time during a match to complete a target and I should use it as I need. If you are beside me it's your job to concentrate on your own shooting and not be bothered by what I may be doing.
    Dave
    Last edited by burtona; 08-06-2019 at 12:49 PM. Reason: spelling, fat fingers

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by burtona View Post
    Have to disagree to some extent. If a shooter beside you distracts you when twisting a tuner a click or two then you are not concentrating on your own shooting enough. It's important to not let whats going on around you distract you from paying attention to your shooting.
    ALso, in my experience it's helpul at times during a match to move the tuner a click or to to keep up with changing conditions. It's my alloted time during a match to complete a target and I should use it as I need. If you are beside me it's your job to concentrate on your own shooting and not be bothered by what I may be doing.
    Dave
    Perzactly! Thanks for saying exactly what I was thinking.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by burtona View Post
    Have to disagree to some extent. If a shooter beside you distracts you when twisting a tuner a click or two then you are not concentrating on your own shooting enough. It's important to not let whats going on around you distract you from paying attention to your shooting.
    ALso, in my experience it's helpul at times during a match to move the tuner a click or to to keep up with changing conditions. It's my alloted time during a match to complete a target and I should use it as I need. If you are beside me it's your job to concentrate on your own shooting and not be bothered by what I may be doing.
    Dave
    Guys,

    I don't want to be argumentative so I won't. But I will say that what goes on around you, and even behind you, can make a big difference in where your bullets go.

    In doors is where this shows up best, but it is still there outdoors.

    Preparation and situation awareness applies to shooting as it does to most other things.

    I'll leave it there, but I would like to invite you guys to Piney Hill this winter and I think I can demonstrate my point.

    burtona, if you can turn a tuner and "keep up with conditions my hat is off to you.

    TKH

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by burtona View Post
    Have to disagree to some extent. If a shooter beside you distracts you when twisting a tuner a click or two then you are not concentrating on your own shooting enough. It's important to not let whats going on around you distract you from paying attention to your shooting.
    ALso, in my experience it's helpul at times during a match to move the tuner a click or to to keep up with changing conditions. It's my alloted time during a match to complete a target and I should use it as I need. If you are beside me it's your job to concentrate on your own shooting and not be bothered by what I may be doing.
    Dave
    Of course you, I assume you know, in IR 50/50 anyway, you are NOT allowed to do anything disruptive including rising from the bench.
    Now I care not what your tuning habits may or may not be, each to his own, but yours is a rationalization, above is a rule.

    That said I would hope,Tony, you continue to expand on an interesting thread.
    Personally, I would welcome any thoughts you may have on tuning, re tuning for brand changes and or weather, etc.......the deep end of the pool.
    Last edited by tim; 08-06-2019 at 06:19 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    Of course you, I assume you know, in IR 50/50 anyway, you are NOT allowed to do anything disruptive including rising from the bench.
    Now I care not what your tuning habits may or may not be, each to his own, but yours is a rationalization above is a rule.

    That said I would hope,Tony, you continue to expand on an interesting thread.
    Personally, I would welcome any thoughts you may have on tuning, re tuning for brand changes and or weather, etc.......the deep end of the pool.
    Good hearing from you Tim.

    I am no tuning expert. I do not know how to perfectly tune a rifle. However, it is my belief that a tuned rifle has to do with all of it's parts, not just the device mounted on the end of the barrel.

    As Iven Wells would say it is the entire "package".

    Some rifles, perhaps many rifles can not be tuned for peak performance due to numerous problems unrelated to it's vibration envelope.

    Yes, the vibration envelope is important, but not until all the other problems are solved.

    TKH

  7. #7
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    I hear that.
    I would guess these threads also attract quite a few newbies as well and many are less likely to think of the ”whole package” mindset.
    Would you offer up a few thoughts on some potential areas to be mindful of ?

  8. #8
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    I know that this will cause trouble but I have to agree with burtona. I have 20 minutes to shoot the card. If your rifle is not doing what you think it is capable of, do you just say it's not my day are do you move the tuner and try to make it shoot better.
    I do know that one of the best shooters in the country watches the temperature and humidity and makes some adjustments accordingly. As Mike Ezell said temperature effects ammo. I also know shooters who never move their tuner, and do well. Concentration is not one of my better qualities but someone getting up to move a tuner should not cause others to lose their concentration. JMHO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by drknite View Post
    I know that this will cause trouble but I have to agree with burtona. I have 20 minutes to shoot the card. If your rifle is not doing what you think it is capable of, do you just say it's not my day are do you move the tuner and try to make it shoot better.
    I do know that one of the best shooters in the country watches the temperature and humidity and makes some adjustments accordingly. As Mike Ezell said temperature effects ammo. I also know shooters who never move their tuner, and do well. Concentration is not one of my better qualities but someone getting up to move a tuner should not cause others to lose their concentration. JMHO.
    FWIW, I never get up to move my tuner. I can reach it from my stool to give it a small nudge when needed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwezell View Post
    FWIW, I never get up to move my tuner. I can reach it from my stool to give it a small nudge when needed.
    Ah....short barrel syndrome.
    Hell, if everybody was like you it would never be an issue.
    Some of these guys look like they’re having a seizure.

  11. #11
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    Who was it once averred (on this site as I recall) that it was his constitutional right to smoke cigars on the bench.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drknite View Post
    I know that this will cause trouble but I have to agree with burtona. I have 20 minutes to shoot the card. If your rifle is not doing what you think it is capable of, do you just say it's not my day are do you move the tuner and try to make it shoot better.
    I do know that one of the best shooters in the country watches the temperature and humidity and makes some adjustments accordingly. As Mike Ezell said temperature effects ammo. I also know shooters who never move their tuner, and do well. Concentration is not one of my better qualities but someone getting up to move a tuner should not cause others to lose their concentration. JMHO.
    Temperature also affects barrels. If you don't believe so try holding a match back and forth under a tuning fork.
    Years ago when I shot IR-50/50 I found I sometimes needed to move the tuner out a click or two as the day heated up. It's about knowing what your rifle/ammo is capable of and recognizing when it's not performing at it's best.
    Dave

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Sorry, but you brought it up

    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    There has been a lot of discussion about tuners on another channel lately.

    These discussions often spawn a new batch of what has been called. "Jack in the box tuner twisters" (Thanks BH for the term)

    I know this post will rub many the wrong way but it is written with good intentions.

    There is a time to twist tuners, and there is a time not to. Twist away until your heart is content at home, on the range, in your back yard, wherever.

    But when you are at a match, and you have other shooters beside you please don't do it.

    Show up at a match with your rifle ready to shoot. I know this isn't always possible, you may need to check your zero, but finding the "best tune, or even a better tune" during the time allotted for a target just isn't good.

    Remember the clock is running, and each time you turn that tuner you lose your zero. The hole you were in just got deeper. Not only are you looking for a better tune, you also have to re zero, and you have less time to do it.

    I know you are hoping you will dial that tuner just a click or two, and all of a sudden everything will be great, but I promise you, that doesn't often happen.

    Reaching up and turning that tuner distracts shooters on both sides of you. In doors, where the benches are close it is really bad.

    In the long run it is better to shoot it as you brought it or find another lot of ammo. Even changing lot numbers has a down side, but not as deep as dialing that tuner.

    TKH
    Most likely it would be better to just get up from the bench and go get another rifle, come back to the bench and start over. That's how the pros do it. Right Tony? LOL and no, it did NOT bother me at all.

    BTW Kenny S. has a copyright on the Jack in the Tuner Twister moniker.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Guys,

    I don't want to be argumentative so I won't. But I will say that what goes on around you, and even behind you, can make a big difference in where your bullets go.

    In doors is where this shows up best, but it is still there outdoors.

    Preparation and situation awareness applies to shooting as it does to most other things.

    I'll leave it there, but I would like to invite you guys to Piney Hill this winter and I think I can demonstrate my point.

    burtona, if you can turn a tuner and "keep up with conditions my hat is off to you.

    TKH
    Couple yrs ago I had two blabby women behind my bench. I should have TOLD em to take it somewhere else.
    I know that is not exactly tuner twisting but it sure as hxxl was distracting.

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