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Thread: Bolt Lift

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by glp View Post
    also is the primary case extraction. If one is using really tight fitting cases that probably will add to the felt force need on initial opening. Just a thought.
    I don't need "primary extraction". I don't click.....period. My cases fall in, fall out......always, or I change something

    I don't polish, the only thing ever to touch my chamber is the reamer.

    I don't put greaze in my chambers...... ever

    Watching Charles, he don"t klik neither

  2. #17
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    Let me just say thanks for all of the good information I have gotten on this thread. My gun hasnít been shooting well and I am going back to some of the basics and that got me to watching a video of Huckeba and I was amazed out how effortless his bolt lift was.
    Ted

  3. #18
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    Ooops double-posted...... should just wait til i get home instead of trying to type on a tardfone
    Last edited by alinwa; 03-10-2019 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #19
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    I've been keeping quiet about Neil Jones dies for some time because I've been a selfish git...... IMO Neil's dies are absolutely thee best and furthermore, Neil understands his craft better than anyone else.

    Period.

    Neil first told me about making the resizer a different taper/shape than the chamber.

    This is simply a shameless plug for a bright man. Nothing else.

    And I'm well aware that we all define "bright" differently, we all want different things... so I'll just opine that I FIND HIM to be a fresh of breath air.....

    And he's the only diemaker I've never argued with LOL

  5. #20
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    Many years ago I saw Huckaba changing sizing dies. We were sharing a room at the Super Shoot and I asked him about it. He said he took a full length die and cut some from the bottom and drilled the neck and shoulder out of it. This became a home made "ring" die. Charles shoots pretty hot and as mentioned the brass gets hard and needs more sizing. I was told and believe the slope or whatever on front of the bolt handle is for primary extraction.

  6. #21
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    Feb 2014
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    Years ago

    A man by name of phil jones told me to emery your chamber other wise cases will stick like two pieces glass together bill brawand 40 yrs ago

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrawand View Post
    A man by name of phil jones told me to emery your chamber other wise cases will stick like two pieces glass together bill brawand 40 yrs ago
    Bill, I know Phil Jones in Oz, but he ain't quite that old.
    I always do a light lap of my chambers with 320 emery on a wooden dowell.

  8. #23
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    I re cut a lot of cocking cams, I have done it in about every popular Br action. Theres a lot in the geometry of that cam that can really smooth out the lift cycle. However I am usually doing it for a different reason, but not always. If you tell me what action you have, I can tell you if you can improve the cam, probably not. Polishing and lapping are minor things that may help you a little. But the vast majority of bolt lift is cocking cam geometry and spring. In some designs the cocking piece can add a lot of friction as well. The problem with reducing bolt lift is usually you have to do things that may have a negative effect on accuracy like, reducing you firing pin spring force. Or if you reduce the cocking cam helix angle, then you will need cock on close to get your firing pin fall back, not something I would do. Some of the new PRS actions have taken this approach,(shallow cocking cams&low pin fall) they have extremely weak ignition but they sure are easy to cycle. You wont see this catch on in BR.
    The action you are referring to I believe is an older CM Bat with a roller cocking piece. Bat used to run a light spring 18-19lb and with that roller, it just wont get any easier to open. However, firing pins, springs, and fall are increasing, and for good reason.
    Alex Wheeler
    Last edited by zfastmalibu; 03-17-2019 at 07:21 AM.

  9. #24
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    Bolt lift

    I currently own the rifle that Charles was using in the video, it opens like butter, by far the smoothest action I own, not sure what Charles did with it to get it that way but the firing spring is around 21-22 lbs. Only time it gets hard lift is when the brass is getting old or someone loaded it a little hot? ;-) Boy can I tell the difference when I work the bolt on my 3L, its one that DS set up too...

  10. #25
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    It might be interesting to catalog all the places that rub when an action is cycled, and look into how the friction could be reduced at those points.

    There are some places that are not so obvious. For instance, when you compress a coil spring it has to slide a little around its longitudinal axis. This is the reason for Tubb's two piece striker spring. It eliminates the friction of the ends of the spring rotating against the surfaces that they contact.

    If one polished the ends of the spring, and the surfaces that they bear on , and applied a little grease, that little bit would be reduce in applications where a two piece spring is not available.

    The angled contact between the cocking piece and the top lever of the trigger causes up force as the striker spring is cocked. Every point of contact that restrains the cocking piece, striker, shroud and bolt from moving up receives that pressure and friction at those points is increased in proportion to the force required to compress the striker spring.

    Another place where striker spring pressure increases friction is where the backs of the lugs contact their abutments, both as the closing cams pull the bolt forward, and as the flats of both the bolt and the abutments slide against each other.

    In some if not all cases. polishing, a better lubricant, or some sort of surface treatment or coating might significantly reduce friction, and of course there are also modifications of the parts or designs that have that have that potential. Roller cocking pieces come to mind, as does reshaping cocking cams.

  11. #26
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    Keep 'em coming Boyd......

    And who better the embark on the voyage of "interesting to catalog all the places that rub when an action is cycled, and look into how the friction could be reduced at those points." than a certain Boyd Allen?? I know you've a more than passing interest in this subject......

    bumps? rings? eccentric bolt?

    delrin shrouds?

    shimmed flats??

    flutes VS smooth?

    straight bolt hannle?

    deflexed?

    reflexed ala XP100?


    ?????

    give a liddle??

    LOL!

    al

  12. #27
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    I think that we can look at a couple of areas to start. We know that there has been a lot of work done on the outsides of bolts to reduce friction. Beyond durability there is the issue of heat. Some processes are done at temperatures that would modify the heat treat of the bolt, or in the case of a factory Remington bolt, possibly cause a problem with the head to body joint. This is where we pause and solicit comments and experiences. I think that it is better not to try to discuss too many things at the same time. But since I did say a couple of things let's throw in a wild card. What about the inside of the action body. Should some areas be off limits. For example would super slick threads and action face have a destabilizing influence on the barrel to action joint? I am reminded of Harold Vaugn's experiments using different materials in this joint. Pause tape, wait for response....

  13. #28
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    Inside the bolt is a big one.... a couple of the action makers have given me the run-down on that one. I am told it's a 3-6hr job doing it by hand.

  14. #29
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    Doing exactly what by hand?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd Allen View Post
    Doing exactly what by hand?
    Spinning up a dowel with sandpaper in successive grits, buffing and polishing the interior of the bolt to a mirror finish, then working with the spring as you touched on. I've never done the whole "polish the inside the bolt manually" thing but I remember feeling it would be a multi-hour process. One maker called it "the single biggest thing"

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