Rimfire Benchrest rifles (Calfee SPEC rifles)

[linekin]

Guys, out of respect for (4628) could you take this over to the tuner thread. Although somewhat amusing, it has no place here.... we all know how you feel about each other, ok?

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Guys, out of respect for (4623) could you take this over to the tuner thread. Although somewhat amusing, it has no place here.... we all know how you feel about each other, ok?

You're right Keith, Sorry Tony

Lee

[tonykharper]

SPEC 5, Back Death was proclaimed to be the most accurate rimfire rifle in the world when it was first built and before it ever went to the first purchaser.

When Bill Calfee made that claim all hell broke loose in the RFBR world.

All types of statements were made about how this was "over the top", "impossible statement to back up", "no rifle is the most accurate it is the shooter and rifle and bullets and barrels, etc etc."

One thing for sure, it caused a lot of excitement, a lot of haters were born, and doubters created.

Who would have ever thought that rifle would still be shooting in competition with the best in the world today and still holding its own.

As far as being the most accurate rimfire rifle in the world? Who knows?

But can you name other rifles with a record equal to Black Death?

TKH

[linekin]

SPEC 5, Back Death was proclaimed to be the most accurate rimfire rifle in the world when it was first built and before it ever went to the first purchaser.

When Bill Calfee made that claim all hell broke loose in the RFBR world.

All types of statements were made about how this was "over the top", "impossible statement to back up", "no rifle is the most accurate it is the shooter and rifle and bullets and barrels, etc etc."

One thing for sure, it caused a lot of excitement, a lot of haters were born, and doubters created.

Who would have ever thought that rifle would still be shooting in competition with the best in the world today and still holding its own.

As far as being the most accurate rimfire rifle in the world? Who knows?

But can you name other rifles with a record equal to Black Death?

TKH

I'm not sure how many major matches BD has won but will take a stab at if there's been equal.
Tony, you've won a bunch with your rifles. How many major matches have you won with Tack Driver or TDX?
Chuck has with his over the years.
B.Brandt has won his fair share comes to mind.
And then there's Bruce's rifles.
How about in the early days of rfbr. Was there anyone dominant so to speak that would be in the mix?
It would be interesting to see the actual number of them all.

[tonykharper]

I'm not sure how many major matches BD has won but will take a stab at if there's been equal.
Tony, you've won a bunch with your rifles. How many major matches have you won with Tack Driver or TDX?
Chuck has with his over the years.
B.Brandt has won his fair share comes to mind.
And then there's Bruce's rifles.
How about in the early days of rfbr. Was there anyone dominant so to speak that would be in the mix?
It would be interesting to see the actual number of them all.

linkin,

You are right there have been others with impressive records.

One point I was trying to make was naming a rifle allows one to track the rifle's record even when there are different owners/shooters.

Bruce and B. Brandt have many, many very impressive wins. While it is possible to track their record(s) we don't know how many different rifles they may have used?

I would point out that Tack Driver (TD) and TDX each won an ARA outdoor and ARA indoor National. Each have won multiple PSLs, and they were my 10.5 lb and 13 lb. rifles used in many IR 50/50 three-gun National wins. But again, I don't know how that compares with unnamed rifles that have impressive histories.

Another point I was trying to make was just how long Black Death has stayed at the top of the game. It still wears the original barrel although I think it has been de glazed.

Chuck has a very impressive record with Uncle Tom. It would be interesting to see that complete record.

TKH

[MaxxPower]

linkin,

Bruce and B. Brandt have many, many very impressive wins. While it is possible to track their record(s) we don't know how many different rifles they may have used?
TKH

\

Tony:

Since I'm not 12 years old I've never felt the need to name my rifles. I've shot the same Sporter and 10 1/2 pound gun since I won my first Nationals.

My Sporter came to life after I replaced the defective Don Stith stock with a Pippin stock. The barrel is the same Benchmark that Kent Owens put on in 2013.

My 10 1/2 pound gun was originally Bill Hinegardner's gun. The barrel was replaced about 3 years ago by Gordon Eck and it has continued it's success.

Bruce H.

[tonykharper]

\

Tony:

Since I'm not 12 years old I've never felt the need to name my rifles. I've shot the same Sporter and 10 1/2 pound gun since I won my first Nationals.

My Sporter came to life after I replaced the defective Don Stith stock with a Pippin stock. The barrel is the same Benchmark that Kent Owens put on in 2013.

My 10 1/2 pound gun was originally Bill Hinegardner's gun. The barrel was replaced about 3 years ago by Gordon Eck and it has continued it's success.

Bruce H.

It's been a long time since we have been 12 years old, some longer than others. You are right about that MaxxPower.

TKH

[George Atkins]

Tony,
When did Mr. Calfee start naming his builds? I have seen several of his older builds, that sport the name Calfee on the barrels, but no name on the stock. I will say that most of the ones I saw, were not full-on customs, more like 40X's and the like. I noticed just lately, he holds LBK very dear and his MD-PAS pistol, which does not seem to have a name, other than MD-PAS pistol.

I am not much into naming objects or cats, neither one will come to you when you call their name. But I understand why you may want to, as you said, you can track their records better. I guess if I were to name one of my 52"s, I would go with Minimally Involved. I don't shoot many sanctioned matches, so it kinda fits.

[tim]

I’m guessing nothing before spec rifles mostly because for a long time he proclaimed he wouldn’t do, didn’t like stocking/ bedding.

[tonykharper]

Tony,
When did Mr. Calfee start naming his builds? I have seen several of his older builds, that sport the name Calfee on the barrels, but no name on the stock. I will say that most of the ones I saw, were not full-on customs, more like 40X's and the like. I noticed just lately, he holds LBK very dear and his MD-PAS pistol, which does not seem to have a name, other than MD-PAS pistol.

I am not much into naming objects or cats, neither one will come to you when you call their name. But I understand why you may want to, as you said, you can track their records better. I guess if I were to name one of my 52"s, I would go with Minimally Involved. I don't shoot many sanctioned matches, so it kinda fits.

George,

I'm not sure when Bill started naming rifles, but I believe it predates the SPEC rifles.

Many people including me feel guns, all guns, are kind of a special tools, so much so they can be more than just tools.

If you look at the rifles, double rifles and shotguns built in England, Germany, and Italy, they were true works of art not just tools. In this country we have taken a more utilitarian approach. They were still held as special but more tools than art. Naming a rifle doesn't make it shoot any better, but it does indicate that it is special to the owner.

Bill always wanted his rifles to be special to the owner shooter. He offered to do custom artwork including a name on all of his builds. Many opted for nothing more than the "Calfee" name, others came up with something more personal.

Naming a rifle is a two-edge sword. If it shoots it gains a reputation, if it doesn't, it also gains a reputation, but not one you desire. This may be the reason many don't want a name on their rifle.

Of course, this naming business was mocked by the haters. Even to the point of naming their rifles "Turd guns". The most famous of these was the "Holy Turd". A 20 plus pound monster that met its match in Indiana. Haters naming their Turd guns has died out now, but the haters are still there. The amusing thing about the haters. The loudest ones have never met Calfee, or shot one of his rifles, or even know the history of the sport.

The PAS/SAP thing is a good example. Many people have said Calfee promotes PAS because that is all he knows. They think if he had spent time with SAP actions, he would see they are just as accurate as PAS.

I make no claim of knowing if one is better or more accurate than the other. I've been beat many times by both. But the truth is Bill has probably built more SAP actioned rifles and pistols than he has PAS. Morale of the story Bill believes what he believes and is in a position of knowing. Most of the haters have never built a winning rifle of any kind. But that doesn't keep them from disrespecting people that have.

OK, I've said too much.

Bring on the haters!

TKH

[penn63]

Well said Tony.

[tim]

George,

I'm not sure when Bill started naming rifles, but I believe it predates the SPEC rifles.

Many people including me feel guns, all guns, are kind of a special tools, so much so they can be more than just tools.

If you look at the rifles, double rifles and shotguns built in England, Germany, and Italy, they were true works of art not just tools. In this country we have taken a more utilitarian approach. They were still held as special but more tools than art. Naming a rifle doesn't make it shoot any better, but it does indicate that it is special to the owner.

Bill always wanted his rifles to be special to the owner shooter. He offered to do custom artwork including a name on all of his builds. Many opted for nothing more than the "Calfee" name, others came up with something more personal.

Naming a rifle is a two-edge sword. If it shoots it gains a reputation, if it doesn't, it also gains a reputation, but not one you desire. This may be the reason many don't want a name on their rifle.

Of course, this naming business was mocked by the haters. Even to the point of naming their rifles "Turd guns". The most famous of these was the "Holy Turd". A 20 plus pound monster that met its match in Indiana. Haters naming their Turd guns has died out now, but the haters are still there. The amusing thing about the haters. The loudest ones have never met Calfee, or shot one of his rifles, or even know the history of the sport.

The PAS/SAP thing is a good example. Many people have said Calfee promotes PAS because that is all he knows. They think if he had spent time with SAP actions, he would see they are just as accurate as PAS.

I make no claim of knowing if one is better or more accurate than the other. I've been beat many times by both. But the truth is Bill has probably built more SAP actioned rifles and pistols than he has PAS. Morale of the story Bill believes what he believes and is in a position of knowing. Most of the haters have never built a winning rifle of any kind. But that doesn't keep them from disrespecting people that have.

OK, I've said too much.

Bring on the haters!

TKH

Tony, why haters? How about observers. There are those, right or wrong that consider it a bit tacky to plaster a billboard on a gun for an ever present ad for who built it, unique to RFBR.
In all the CFBR world there are exactly zero smiths that do this. While no doubt he built them and can turn them out any way he wishes.
Categorizing any diverse opinion as “ haters” is, frankly, beneath you. You don’t have to be #1 Fanboy 100% of the time.
FWIW. The #1 hater on the planet is the WLM, who publicly ridicules anything and everything he never laid hands on from his private, protected perch, including unrelenting commentary of other action makers in spite of their fantastic track record, dictating “ what the word wants”. THAT, friend, is a true hater.

[tonykharper]

Tony, why haters? How about observers. There are those, right or wrong that consider it a bit tacky to plaster a billboard on a gun for an ever present ad for who built it, unique to RFBR.
In all the CFBR world there are exactly zero smiths that do this. While no doubt he built them and can turn them out any way he wishes.
Categorizing any diverse opinion as “ haters” is, frankly, beneath you. You don’t have to be #1 Fanboy 100% of the time.
FWIW. The #1 hater on the planet is the WLM, who publicly ridicules anything and everything he never laid hands on from his private, protected perch, including unrelenting commentary of other action makers in spite of their fantastic track record, dictating “ what the word wants”. THAT, friend, is a true hater.

Tim,

I’ll give you some time to re read your post if you choose to, before I respond.

I owe you that, we have spent some enjoyable times together. I really don’t think you want to make this personal. I didn’t in my post.

TKH

[tim]

Tim,

I’ll give you some time to re read your post if you choose to, before I respond.

I owe you that, we have spent some enjoyable times together. I really don’t think you want to make this personal. I didn’t in my post.

TKH

Absolutely nothing at all personal Tony, but by the same token, setting the stage for any differing opinion as haters was not really fair IMO.
The thread, at it ‘s core, is about the rifles, once it morphs into “haters and doubters” is that really necessary ?
And yes… I have enjoyed those times and hope there may be a couple more down the road.

[tonykharper]

Absolutely nothing at all personal Tony, but by the same token, setting the stage for any differing opinion as haters was not really fair IMO.
The thread, at it ‘s core, is about the rifles, once it morphs into “haters and doubters” is that really necessary ?
And yesÂ… I have enjoyed those times and hope there may be a couple more down the road.

This thread has nearly 200K views and contains a lot of information I don't have the energy to re-create so I'll pick my words carefully. I don't want to say anything that would cause the thread to be deleted or locked. Additionally, I don't want to alienate you, or any other person in our very small RFBR community.

But facts are facts and even in our currently convoluted country they should count for something.

Calfee posts on one site only. No person is forced or required to read his threads. That is a choice you make yourself. If you read his comments and get upset about it, that is on you. No one else.

You asked why I used the word haters. It is not a pretty word, but one used often to describe exactly what I was trying to describe.

On another RFBR site there are entire threads dedicated to posting hate comments about Calfee. The moderator doesn't take these personal attack threads down because he knows on that site you have to go along to get along. Kiss the ring and swear your hatred for Calfee to be a member of the group. Now being on that site or hating one particular person doesn't by definition make you a hater. But just as the democratic party went after Trump they didn't become true haters until they started going after many of the people that were associated with Trump.

Now let us go back to my post on this thread. I pointed out Calfee had a lot of experience with both SAP and PAS actions and that experience is where he developed his beliefs.

Your post came back with the fan-boy comment that was personal and highly offensive. You say it's not personal and I guess we can agree to disagree.

I would like to think RFBR forums can be a place where information can be shared without the fear of being personally attacked.

I recall a big tournament in New York that you served as match director and overall coordinator. You pulled it off without a hitch and everyone had a great time. You have given a lot to this sport that many will never recognize, but I'm sure you did it not for recognition, but for your love of the sport.

National level RFBR has provided me many positive experiences. I've had the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat many times and I'm thankful for it all.

It makes me sad to see what these forums have become. Many express the opinion that this crap is only on the forums.

I hope that is true, if it gets so one can't attend National matches for fear of being attacked. We will be back to where we were before sanctioning bodies were created. Local clubs where old buddies shoot together and enjoy each other's company.

If you look around many have already done that.

TKH