1000 yd Muzzle Brake Rule Change

Please use the original petition

The word document posted by Bounty Hunter is NOT the same at the petition I originally posted. The original is attached. It is important to get signature on a petition that is identical if we want to get is accepted.
 

Attachments

  • Petition to Change IBS Official Rules of Competition.pdf
    136.6 KB · Views: 102
  • Petition to Change IBS Official Rules of Competition.doc
    28 KB · Views: 112
Send the signed petition to:
Jerry Bennington
4909 Eldorado Springs Dr
Boulder, CO 80303
 
Looking at the Williamsport Pa web page I found the following ;

ORIGINAL PA 1000 YARD BENCHREST CLUB, INC.
P.O. BOX 1413,
WILLIAMSPORT, PA. 17703.






EQUIPMENT RULES UNIQUE TO HEAVY GUN CLASS COMPETITION

54.0 There should be no device present that stops rearward and/or upward movement of the rifle.
54.1 In the Heavy Gun class muzzle brakes are permitted, provided there is no rearward discharge of gasses.


EQUIPMENT RULES UNIQUE TO LIGHT GUN CLASS COMPETITION


58.0 Muzzle brakes are allowed to reduce recoil, provided there is no rearward discharge of gasses.

Are the IBS rules the same as Williamsport ?
What about felt recoil ? I thought the purpose of the brake was to reduce the felt recoil . What use are they if they are not allowed to have any gasses discharged to the rear ?

I have not yet shot any 1000 yard matches , but since Williamsport is the closest for me I was just wondering if their rules were the same as IBS
 
make them legal for all hg's, or don't allow them period, just like williamsport, so we all on the same page. thats my two cents, of course i did'nt draw they relays with that damn cheytac in it.
tom
 
. . . I thought the purpose of the brake was to reduce the felt recoil . What use are they if they are not allowed to have any gasses discharged to the rear ? . . .

yat

Brakes that discharge to the side are very effective in reducing recoil.

NBRSA Long Range rules concerning rifles are the most liberal you can find anywhere. In part, they state:

"There are no restrictions for the rifle being used as to weight or sights; caliber is restricted to .40 or less. Muzzle
brakes may be used, but they may not be of a “clamshell” or any other design that exit gases to the rear."


The rules are the same for Light Gun except the weight has to be less than 17 pounds.

It can't get any simpler or fairer than that.

Ray
 
NBRSA rule is best

Ray ...I agree....I shoot NBRSA events because I can use my LG in HG class...I am unable to carry a HG....I would love to have one but just cant stand the xtra weight with my bad back.....it seems like no one is realizing that they are going to get old and broke down like some of their fellow (ME !!) competitors...Roger
 
The word document posted by Bounty Hunter is NOT the same at the petition I originally posted. The original is attached. It is important to get signature on a petition that is identical if we want to get is accepted.

Use any petition/agenda item you personally want. It is obviously important to jbennington that you sign his, but there can be many agneda items. Sign them all, sign none, it is your choice. No one is asking to not sign yours, why would you ask for people to not sign someone else's ?
---------------Jeff
 
I have no horse in this race so bear that in mind.

But, for those who use the PA club as an example of why this should be done, consider that the attendance of the HG class didn't increase one iota when that rule changed. A few with HG's did stick on brakes, just long enough to see the guns shoot bigger'n hell and take em back off.

If ya wanna know why LG shooters don't often show up at HG matches it's not because of any brake, it cause they don't like being handicapped on a weekly basis. Some avid shooters who really enjoy shooting will do it, I was one. But, you need a miracle gun, conditions to fit, and a good attitude about who you're competing against to have fun that way. That combo is unusual.

I'd have to look back at old records to see how many relays were won by anyone with a LG in the Hclass. But while yes, some LG's did shoot enough to win some relays, and even occasionally win a score shootoff, they were by no means as competitive as is being made out above. I say this having had one of the winningest LGs when shot in Hclass up there. Back in those days, nobody in the club won over 4 relays in a year, in either class. So winning 3 HG relays with a LG was highly unusual. (I did that actually)

Be that as it may, the rule change in PA has had virtually no effect whatsoever. I seriously doubt any of the people who shoot light guns in Hclass really care about the rule. And, I'd bet that if you take all the people who end up voting on this issue, there won't be 1% who ever actually show up to shoot their LG with he HGs. There's people who are simply never satisfied to let well enough alone, and this is another example. The up-side is, it probably won't change anything no matter how a vote goes. I know if it was me, I'd go to that HG match, see these guns that don't cost any more than a LG, and say, "Gee, I want one of those big monsters that shoots 3" 10 shot groups"

Fact is, people think of the LG class as the "Entry" class. But fact is, years back the HG class was the "Entry" Class, and only if you wanted to go see what a handicapped gun would do, would you go build a LG. Now it's the other way around, and for the life of me I can't imagine why. Personally, I think HGs are a HELL of a lot more fun to shoot.

Jmho.

/Edit to add/
Maybe what would help attendance of matches would be to have all the shooters who recruit new blood to start telling the new blood to build a HG first. This way, if they wanted to bring a wife or daughter along cause going alone is not really an option, the significant other might actually enjoy being there cause they could be competitive day one, and just plain relax and enjoy themselves behind a nice tame HG.
 
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Bountyhunter Bring some to the World Open, I'm sure you can get enough people to sign it. I'll print one up and bring it to the next match.

Joe Salt
 
I do agree with Phil, a good shooting heavy gun is a lot of fun to shoot. When it comes to statistics, Phil was up many a late night studying the stats. I actually miss the reports he done for the banquet. He would set it up as a question and answer thing and it usually covered all shooting for the previous four years at Williamsport. As far as brakes go it didn't help our attendance in heavy gun much at all. But our light gun attendance seems to be up so far this year. Matt
 
Bountyhunter Bring some to the World Open, I'm sure you can get enough people to sign it. I'll print one up and bring it to the next match.

Joe Salt

Joe, would love to except I am traveling about 2 weeks a month for the USMC still and really has killed my time to shoot. Will not make it again this year as I am on the road again. Just download the one I posted here and it has signature page for 25 signatures. Key will be getting those PA IBS members to show up in Jan with a proxy vote each at the winter meeting. If not they both will go down in flames.
 
Jeff
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't support BH agenda petiton. I just wanted to make sure that folks on this forum realize that it is different from the one I used to start the thread. I plan to suggest his agenda item but I think it will be harder to get passed.
 
You have to get 25 signatures; you have to hope it even gets out of the LR committee, (not the current committee but we have seen items stopped in committee).

BH

Actually the Long Range Committee cannot bottle up an agenda item. Any properly submitted (25 signatures before July 1st) agenda item has to be acted on at the meeting.
Dick Grosbier
 
If anyone cares about the opinion of a new shooter here is mine. At the moment I am neither a member of IBS or Williamsport, but that will change very soon. My son and I were introduced to 1000yd benchrest last Sep at Williamsport by one very fine member. We met through e-bay when he purchased a piece of equipment from me. Upon talking we found we sharred many of the same interest. I had tried reloading for semi-long range 25 yrs ago. He invited us to a match and provided us with every thing. We had a great time with my son winning his relay and getting in the shoot offs. He and his shooting friend came to MO for our deer season in Nov and again we had a great time. He even brought a loner 300 WSM LG (no brake) with a new barrel for my son to get started. How about that. I really got infected with the 1000yd and spent all winter on these forums learning all I could and planning to hit the ground running this season. I had a 7MM SAUM LG (no brake) built by a local gunsmith and who also shoots and bought a 308 Baer LG with a brake from one of the Williamsport members. Due to the long winter and wet spring I have been too busy to go to any matches yet. Yes we have two rifles that we can shoot in IBS HG but I would like to be able to use the 308 Baer in HG, but I am not about to do so without the brake and try to retune too. I think Bob Pastor has the right idea. I have invested about $10,000.00 so far and haven't been to a match yet, how ever We plan to go to the Williamsport open in July (953 miles). I can't say that I don't care about winning, but I really just want to do a good job with the big boys. I took on three different loads to develop at once because I wanted to experience as much as possible. MO and IA clubs are considerable more expensive to shoot at than Williamsport, might help explain why their attendence is down. I hope to fine some matches for winter shooting when I have plenty of time. I have learned a lot from all of you and hope to give you some competion in the near future. Thanks, Mike
 
Just got 19 signatures from Herman Harke in Frederickburg, VA. That is fantastic, thanks for the support.

Don't forget, we need to get sign petitions submitted to the Long Range Committee by July 1st.
 
Jerry Bennington
I got another 14 signitures at the PA. 1000 Yard club this weekend on the muzzle Brakes, Do I send it to you.

Joe Salt
 
Joe
That is great. Yes, it would be best if you send them to me.

Jerry Bennington
4909 Eldorado Springs Drive
Boulder, CO 80303

Call if you have questions 303 819-2080
 
The petitions have been submitted to the LR Committee

I sent both petitions on June 21st with more than 25 signatures. I am sending additional signatures I have received since then today. Agenda #! (Muzzle breaks for ALL guns in HG) has a total of 40 signatures and agenda #2 (muzzle breaks for LG in HG) has a total of 32 signatures. It is interesting to note that these totals are comparable to the attendance at the annual meeting..
 
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