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Thread: The Anti-Hunter Amendment

  1. #1
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    The Anti-Hunter Amendment

    No, my name is not on the amendment, literally -- however, my name is all over it. Given the possibility of a perceived threat to the status quo, I'm not surprised that the former president and the BOD took the time to amend the by-laws because of me. I lost the election and don't have any HOF points; however, I now have a by-laws amendment designed in my honor!

    The email trail below (which is in chronological order) provides a bit of background.

    ===============

    Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 9:28 AM
    To: Gene Bukys; Mike Bryant; Don Creach; Jean-Marie Deletang; Steve Lee; Terry Meyer; Bud Mundy; Jack Neary; David Woodward; Dan Zaccanti
    Subject: President's Agenda Item # 2

    Mr. President and Members of the BOD,

    I want to share my thoughts on a few the BOD agenda items shown in the September 2018 issue of Precision Rifleman.

    ...

    President’s Items

    #2, regarding changing the qualifications for being a director from having been a member for at least “3 years” to3 consecutive years prior to running for director, with no lapses in membership.”

    That strikes me as a needless an ill-advised rule change, intended to tighten-up on what could be viewed as a circle-the-wagons approach to running the NBRSA. The proposed change does nothing to assess a potential candidate’s capability of being a director or his/her interest in helping the benchrest community; rather, it seems intended to blackball certain former members whose views on management might differ from those of the majority of the current members of the BOD – someone who might bring new ways of thinking to the BOD. The NBRSA has experienced a fairly steady decline in membership over many years and it should make it easy for members to run for the office of director. As far as I know, an incumbent director has been challenged only twice in years – that can’t be good for the organization.

    In addition to the suspect rationale of the proposed rule, the language of the proposal raises some interesting questions. First, it seems as though the last phrase would exclude anyone whose membership ever lapsed for any reason from running for director, even if the lapse was due to an oversight in the timely payment of dues. Surely, that’s not the intent....

    What does this proposal really accomplish other than keeping folks from running for director who might have had a legitimate reason for a lapse in membership – regardless of when or how long that lapse was? I submit that it does nothing and suggest that it not be implemented.

    Query – other than me, would the proposed change have prevented anyone in the history of the NBRSA from running for director? This proposal seems to have my name written all over it, but it leaves open the possibility I could run for director in the future.


    ===============

    Date: 9/19/18 4:00 PM (GMT-06:00)
    To: Steve Lee
    Subject: ...

    Steve, ... what was the BOD vote on Gene Bukys’ proposal that the by-laws be changed for the qualifications for being a director from having been a member for at least “3 years” to3 consecutive years prior to running for director, with no lapses in membership.”

    ===============

    From: Steve Lee
    Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:59 AM
    Subject: ...

    The vote passed. Won't affect you next time assuming no lapses in your membership.

    ===============

    Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 11:20 AM
    To: Steve Lee
    Subject: ...

    Steve, thanks for responding.

    ... given that you know I let my membership lapse at the end of 2016, can you explain your understanding of how the “no lapses” clause would NOT affect me?

  2. #2
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    Bill
    Be careful I heard on good authority the new President intends to utilize a black Momba on the rable rouseing

    Not sure you heard

  3. #3
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    The NBRSA wants Directors who are dedicated to fulfilling the mandate of the Organization

    I would think that this dedication would extend to not only bothering to keep your membership current, but also being an active participant in the events that the Organization sanctions.

    Sounds like common sense.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 09-24-2018 at 09:58 AM.

  4. #4
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    Seems plain to me, no lapses for 3 consecutive years prior to running for director, Nothing about never having a lapse.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve stanley View Post
    Seems plain to me, no lapses for 3 consecutive years prior to running for director, Nothing about never having a lapse.
    The proposal reads, in pertinent part, "3 consecutive years prior to running for director, with no lapses in membership." Under your interpretation, what does that last phrase add to the sentence? It's not needed to describe what "consecutive" means; thus, maybe it means something beyond those three consecutive years.

  6. #6
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    It seems to me that:

    1. No one cares.

    2. No one cares.

    3. No one cares.

    Just my interpretation. No black mamba involved.

    Later
    Dave

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

    From: Steve Lee
    Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:59 AM
    Subject: ...

    The vote passed. Won't affect you next time assuming no lapses in your membership.

    ===============

    Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 11:20 AM
    To: Steve Lee
    Subject: ...

    Steve, thanks for responding.

    ... given that you know I let my membership lapse at the end of 2016, can you explain your understanding of how the “no lapses” clause would NOT affect me?
    Bill this will not affect you because by the time I come up for reelection you will have been a member for three consecutive years...assuming you don't have another hissy fit and let your membership lapse.

    One of these days I hope you realize that contributing to the organization in a constructive way will win more support than sniping from the sidelines. Why don't you come to the Roanoke shoot October 6-7, shoot and visit with the other shooters and talk about shooting rather than politics? Hope to see you there!

    Steve

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    The proposal reads, in pertinent part, "3 consecutive years prior to running for director, with no lapses in membership." Under your interpretation, what does that last phrase add to the sentence? It's not needed to describe what "consecutive" means; thus, maybe it means something beyond those three consecutive years.
    If it means anything other than 3 consecutive yrs without a lapse in those 3 yrs it is very poorly worded.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Lee View Post
    Bill this will not affect you because by the time I come up for reelection you will have been a member for three consecutive years...assuming you don't have another hissy fit and let your membership lapse.

    One of these days I hope you realize that contributing to the organization in a constructive way will win more support than sniping from the sidelines.
    Steve, I renewed on Dec 20, 2017; thus, three consecutive years later would be Dec 20, 2020. Your current term runs through the 2020 Nationals and I'm not aware of the Nationals ever having been held after mid-October. So, again, why do you say the amendment will not affect me?

    As for having contributed to the organization in a constructive way, you know I've done that plenty of times.

    BTW, if you're interested, ask me the next time we see each other and I'll give you all the background as to, as you say, the "hissy fit."

  10. #10
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    Angry Grow Up

    Don't you people have better things to do....Fing GROW UP .... I know you arn't 4years old..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallcaliber View Post
    Don't you people have better things to do....Fing GROW UP .... I know you arn't 4years old..
    A couple of responses to this thread puzzle me. I've frequented this board for close to twenty years. During that time roughly every 6 months someone starts a thread bemoaning why benchrest isn't growing and asked how it can be grown.
    I asked Wilbur what were the duties of regional directors. He told me that part of the duties were actively doing things to promote and grow benchrest in their region. This would include recruiting new ranges and shooters and establishing new competitions. (Wilbur can feel free to correct me if I misunderstood or misquoted him). I have been the benchrest chairman for a club of more than 1000 members for fifteen years. I have been president of this club for one year. During that time I have never once been approached by anyone representing NBRSA. In addition, I have shot in benchrest competition at a range/club where one of the regional directors is a member (or was). I have shot there a minimum of three times per year. (I shoot there when it gets too cold at our range). I have only seen this person at the range one time and even then he wasn't there to shoot. My point is, I don't see any active promotion going on.

    Now you have an active shooter who is displeased with the current leadership. Whether he has good reason is difficult to say as said leadership doesn't seem to want to share information. What folks have told him in this thread is essentially, " take your toys and go play in the street". He's been told nobody cares, which appears to be true. And he's been told to grow up. I'm sure I'm not the only non-member who has watched this thread. The picture you folks are painting of the NBRSA isn't one that will attract many new shooters/members or so it seems to me. Maybe, Hunter (Bill) hasn't gone about this in the best possible way, but he is clearly interested in the sport and wants to help. He sure as hell doesn't want the position for the $$. One would think there would be a way to direct his enthusiasm other than to say, just go away.

    Rick

  12. #12
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    I hesitated about responding to the following posts-- but here goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    The NBRSA wants Directors who are dedicated to fulfilling the mandate of the Organization

    I would think that this dedication would extend to not only bothering to keep your membership current, but also being an active participant in the events that the Organization sanctions.
    1. Do you think that such dedication would extend to directors and officers being responsive, in a timely fashion, to NBRSA-related inquiries from members?

    2. How much active participation do you think qualifies? BTW, see item 1 in post # 1 at http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...utheast-Region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Coots View Post
    It seems to me that:
    1. No one cares.

    2. No one cares.

    3. No one cares.
    So, you're saying no one cares about:

    a. the NBRSA having lost over $25K last year?
    b. a member being ousted for what seems to be less-than-legitimate reasons?
    c. several ranges no longer holding registered matches because of b. above?
    d. the membership being on a fairly steady decline for 20 years?
    e. the membership, as of last year, being the lowest in 20 years?
    f. a director seemingly over-riding the unanimous mandate of the members present at a previously announced regional meeting?
    g. the BOD purposely erecting needless obstacles to challenging an incumbent director?

    I don't believe any of those things!
    Last edited by Hunter; 09-26-2018 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
    A couple of responses to this thread puzzle me. I've frequented this board for close to twenty years. During that time roughly every 6 months someone starts a thread bemoaning why benchrest isn't growing and asked how it can be grown.
    I asked Wilbur what were the duties of regional directors. He told me that part of the duties were actively doing things to promote and grow benchrest in their region. This would include recruiting new ranges and shooters and establishing new competitions. (Wilbur can feel free to correct me if I misunderstood or misquoted him). I have been the benchrest chairman for a club of more than 1000 members for fifteen years. I have been president of this club for one year. During that time I have never once been approached by anyone representing NBRSA. In addition, I have shot in benchrest competition at a range/club where one of the regional directors is a member (or was). I have shot there a minimum of three times per year. (I shoot there when it gets too cold at our range). I have only seen this person at the range one time and even then he wasn't there to shoot. My point is, I don't see any active promotion going on.

    Now you have an active shooter who is displeased with the current leadership. Whether he has good reason is difficult to say as said leadership doesn't seem to want to share information. What folks have told him in this thread is essentially, " take your toys and go play in the street". He's been told nobody cares, which appears to be true. And he's been told to grow up. I'm sure I'm not the only non-member who has watched this thread. The picture you folks are painting of the NBRSA isn't one that will attract many new shooters/members or so it seems to me. Maybe, Hunter (Bill) hasn't gone about this in the best possible way, but he is clearly interested in the sport and wants to help. He sure as hell doesn't want the position for the $$. One would think there would be a way to direct his enthusiasm other than to say, just go away.

    Rick
    Rick, what region of the NBRSA are you in and what club do you represent? I respect your right to have a handle when you post as sometimes it's not in a person's best interest to advertise that he lives in such and such town along with his name and advertise that he is a gun owner. Everyone isn't honest and crooks will go to great lengths to find places where they can break in and steal. However, when you don't see a name, you don't know who to contact to see if a club is interested in hosting NBRSA matches. I guarantee any director will not turn you down if you want to host registered NBRSA matches. He'll try his best to fit your club and their matches into the region's schedule. If you don't know who the director of the region where you live, you can find it on the NBRSA web site or probably easier to find it in a copy of Precision Rifleman magazine which is available for download by anyone including non-members on the NBRSA web site. Contact your director. I'm the current director for the Gulf Coast regions which is Texas and Louisiana. We recently lost the Denton club who had been hosting matches for the past several years when Mike Stinnett stepped down and quit hosting them. If there is someone in the Denton club who would like to start back up hosting matches at Denton, I'd be glad to put them into the 2019 schedule. Having the director contact you is hard to do when he doesn't know who to contact. For instance, I have no idea of who to contact at Denton to try to get benchrest matches going again there.

    The sole purpose of the particular by laws amendment that Bill is talking about is that the board feels that anyone who wants to run as director should be an active shooter. When you have three years consecutive membership during which you run for the director's job, that's a pretty good sign that you are a pretty active shooter. I don't think there is anyone on the board that is a lawyer and I can see how the wording could be misinterpreted from what was intended by the board. Pretty well what the board intended at least to my understanding with that amendment to the by laws is that before a person runs for office of director, that he should be a member of the NBRSA for the past three years without a lapse in membership within those three years before he or she can run for director. Pretty simple and it makes sense to me. We may need to correct the wording of the amendment to make it a little clearer.

  14. #14
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    Well put Mike and it's not what the Organization to do for ? but what ? can do for the organization. Unfortunately this fellow has been trying to grind an axe for way to long and he has not been doing it in the best interest of the organization. Just an observation from an outsider who has been following it along. I am a competitive shooter but I compete in a different game.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bryant View Post
    The sole purpose of the particular by laws amendment that Bill is talking about is that the board feels that anyone who wants to run as director should be an active shooter. When you have three years consecutive membership during which you run for the director's job, that's a pretty good sign that you are a pretty active shooter....Pretty well what the board intended at least to my understanding with that amendment to the by laws is that before a person runs for office of director, that he should be a member of the NBRSA for the past three years without a lapse in membership within those three years before he or she can run for director. Pretty simple and it makes sense to me.
    Mike, thanks for weighing-in on this thread. Just a FYI, during the four consecutive years prior to my near-one-year lapse in membership, I shot in or helped run every registered match in GA, shot in two registered matches outside of GA, three Super Shoots and one Nationals; l also shot in and helped run every club match at River Bend. During my near-one-year lapse I helped run, gratis, both registered matches at River Bend and shot in and helped run every club match at River Bend. Since I've reactivated my membership, I've shot in two of the three registered matches in GA and all of the club matches at River Bend. Contrary to what anyone might say, I am an active shooter.

    As for the second part of the quoted part of your post, the rule seemed to work fine until I came along.

    BTW, the amendment does NOTHING to assure that a nominee for director is an active shooter!
    Last edited by Hunter; 09-26-2018 at 07:49 PM.

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