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Thread: In your opinion whats killing the group game

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Phoenix Az
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    140
    I think it comes down to $$$$$$
    Lets say i want to shoot Raton, weekend match,LV,HV. I live in Phoenix. Thats 725 miles one way,10 hours.

    5 Tanks of gas =$250-$300
    3 Days Hotel =$225
    Food = $150
    Registration = $120
    Components = $150
    Misc = $ 50
    ________
    Total $945

    Thats to shoot 20 targets, Thats $47.25 Per Target !!!!!!

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Davenport, Iowa
    Posts
    399

    Per Target/Per Fish Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by classcat View Post
    I think it comes down to $$$$$$
    Lets say i want to shoot Raton, weekend match,LV,HV. I live in Phoenix. Thats 725 miles one way,10 hours.

    5 Tanks of gas =$250-$300
    3 Days Hotel =$225
    Food = $150
    Registration = $120
    Components = $150
    Misc = $ 50
    ________
    Total $945

    Thats to shoot 20 targets, Thats $47.25 Per Target !!!!!!
    About the same price per fish as in a fishing tournament???
    Assuming you can catch fish!!!!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    12
    Times have changed, priorities are different for many. The game has advanced till the rules are almost killing the sport. The classes are almost redundant with the lightweight equipment available. Look at pictures of the parking lot 20 years ago. Big name shooters lived in tent trailers, vans, tents and slept on front porches and couches. Now look today and there are outfits that cost more than my current home. It is not really about the money.
    It could be shortened up to varmint and unlimited. If one class shot 1 day and the other shot the second day then all who can afford to shoot 1 gun can go home after the day is over or try there hand with a varmint rifle in unlimited. The way it is set up now, if you can shoot 1 day, you get to shoot 1 rifle or 2 very similar capable rifles at 100 yds and go home with nothing but maybe a yardage pc of wood. It is rarely about the money as that has never been easy for most. But if you have a family and other obligations and shooting 1 day sucks, then why scrape and scrounge to get it all together just to go without a chance of succeeding for anything. It has become pointless for anyone who has a family at home.
    It used to be different.
    It is just the way things change and their isn't a lot you can do about it.

  4. #64
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    5,220
    About those fishing tournaments....My buddy Mark Luksic and myself found a good spot to throw a spinner the day before the tournament so we signed up. I don't remember which one of us did it but one of us swapped to a crank bait and fouled hooked a small (real small) sun perch. That was all we had so instead of attending the weigh in we just went home.

    We shot poorly now and then, more now than then, but it didn't seem to matter as much as not catching any fish.

  5. #65
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by John VM View Post
    Times have changed, priorities are different for many. The game has advanced till the rules are almost killing the sport. The classes are almost redundant with the lightweight equipment available. Look at pictures of the parking lot 20 years ago. Big name shooters lived in tent trailers, vans, tents and slept on front porches and couches. Now look today and there are outfits that cost more than my current home. It is not really about the money.
    It could be shortened up to varmint and unlimited. If one class shot 1 day and the other shot the second day then all who can afford to shoot 1 gun can go home after the day is over or try there hand with a varmint rifle in unlimited. The way it is set up now, if you can shoot 1 day, you get to shoot 1 rifle or 2 very similar capable rifles at 100 yds and go home with nothing but maybe a yardage pc of wood. It is rarely about the money as that has never been easy for most. But if you have a family and other obligations and shooting 1 day sucks, then why scrape and scrounge to get it all together just to go without a chance of succeeding for anything. It has become pointless for anyone who has a family at home.
    It used to be different.
    It is just the way things change and their isn't a lot you can do about it.

    Yhea, it kinda' sorta' seems that way BUT....TB, driving the same OLD motorhome he drove in 1998 can still blow our doors off!!


    /

  6. #66
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    Feb 2003
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    Tennessee
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    6,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    About those fishing tournaments....My buddy Mark Luksic and myself found a good spot to throw a spinner the day before the tournament so we signed up. I don't remember which one of us did it but one of us swapped to a crank bait and fouled hooked a small (real small) sun perch. That was all we had so instead of attending the weigh in we just went home.

    We shot poorly now and then, more now than then, but it didn't seem to matter as much as not catching any fish.
    Tell me about it CCBW, one of my buddies just bought an $85,000 Bass boat. What does that raise the price/per pound of fish to???? Fishing rods $225/ea, reels/$250/ea.....

    Makes my Triton TR19 Pro look like a kyack.

    .

  7. #67
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by John VM View Post
    Times have changed, priorities are different for many. The game has advanced till the rules are almost killing the sport. The classes are almost redundant with the lightweight equipment available. Look at pictures of the parking lot 20 years ago. Big name shooters lived in tent trailers, vans, tents and slept on front porches and couches. Now look today and there are outfits that cost more than my current home. It is not really about the money.
    It could be shortened up to varmint and unlimited. If one class shot 1 day and the other shot the second day then all who can afford to shoot 1 gun can go home after the day is over or try there hand with a varmint rifle in unlimited. The way it is set up now, if you can shoot 1 day, you get to shoot 1 rifle or 2 very similar capable rifles at 100 yds and go home with nothing but maybe a yardage pc of wood. It is rarely about the money as that has never been easy for most. But if you have a family and other obligations and shooting 1 day sucks, then why scrape and scrounge to get it all together just to go without a chance of succeeding for anything. It has become pointless for anyone who has a family at home.
    It used to be different.
    It is just the way things change and their isn't a lot you can do about it.
    I tend to agree.

    The way things have evolved, the Two Gun Format might be a detriment to Benchrest.

    In order to make the Two Gun Format more palatable to Clubs and Match Directors, most Clubs shoot both classe's 100 yardage one day, then the 200 the next day. If a shooter can attend just one day, he cannot compete for a Grand Agg.

    The thing is, most shooters don't even change Rifles. A legal LV is simply shot in both classes.

    A few years back, the Sporter rules were totally revamped to do away with just about all restrictions except no true return to battery feature and weight, which temained at 10.5 pounds. Basically a 10.5 lb Unlimited Bag Gun.

    How many have you seen at Match in the past years. At the Nationals last year, when Class Sporter as fired, how many shooters simply shot their LV in the class. I bet you could count the number on "Sporters" on one hand.

    It was the same back when we had the .230 caliber rule that separated LV and Sporter. At one Nationals I attended in Kansas City, only 4 participants shot a 22, the entire rest of the field simply shot their "Sporter.

    The truth is, Benchrest just needs two classes, Bag Gun and Unlimited. The Rules for the Bag Gun Class could simply be set at what is now Heavy Varmint. The Unlimited could just stay as they are.

    Chances are, more shooters would participate, (at the local and Region level), if there were one day shoots.

    This is how Varmint for Score is set up. One Class, you go to a Match, shoot two yardages combined for a Grand Agg and go home.

    The traditionalist will say this will ruin the Nationals, have affect on the records, and be contrary to the general mandate of Benchrest. This might be true. But it doesn't solve the problem of fewer and fewer participants in Group Shooting at the Local and Region level.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 07-22-2018 at 12:54 PM.

  8. #68
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    Tennessee
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    Jackie - folks could do exactly that right now...just sayin'.

  9. #69
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    Mar 2010
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    1,506

    in your opinion whats killing the group game

    How about shooting 1 class a day? 10o yds in the Am and 200 in the afternoon?
    THat way it,s just 1 day for the shooter, the second day would be another class for those who travel and want t shoot two classes.
    What do you think on that?

  10. #70
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    Yes, they can. Why don't they?

  11. #71
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    Apr 2012
    Location
    Waynesville. NC
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    604
    Itís a pretty big ordeal to move frames and flags both days. No one wants to help move them as it is

    I personally donít want to drive a few hundred miles for a one day match. I like having the 2 and 3 gun aggs gives you a chance to come back not just one mistake and completely over with
    There are local non registered matches around for the one day events
    A registered BR match is and should be a big deal.

  12. #72
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    Tennessee
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    I don't attend any longer but based on my thoughts of several years ago...I completely agree with Tim.

    Jackie - Maybe that's the reason folks don't host one day group matches. Somebody in a "hotspot" should give it try!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Singleton View Post
    A registered BR match is and should be a big deal.
    It is, as long as Shooters show up.

    That's what this discussion is about.

    The way I see it. Big matches that have a pedigree, such as World Team Qualifyers and National Events are still drawing good crowds. It's the local Regional Matches run by Clubs or Private Ranges that are lacking in support. Or disappearing all together.

    At Tomball, we have been having a Registered Group Match for 5 decades. Not anymore. Why? Very few cared enough to show up in April of this year. Keep in mind, we are in the second or third largest metropolitan area in the entire Country. 14 shooters.

    Why bother?

    We lost Denton as well. It's a huge club. No participation and no one willing to do the work.

    There are no Group Matches in the other State that makes up the Gulf Coast Region, Louisianna. We shoot Varmint for Score there.

    Walker County is having good turnouts, but not in Group. They can hold Varmint for Score and Claybreak Matches with little hassle, have better participation, and do it in one day.

    Larry is hosting the NBRSA 200-300 Long Range Nationals at Walker County in October. I believe that how the Group Shooters respond to this will determine if he has any more Group Matches in the future.

    Tim, I am as sick about this as anybody. When I first started shooting in the mid '90's, Matches had cut off limits. You had to register early to get in. Now, they can't even entrees to pay for the awards.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 07-23-2018 at 11:16 AM.

  14. #74
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    Apr 2012
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    Waynesville. NC
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    Jackie, I would have loved to seen it been a part of things then.
    The excitement at a big match with close to 100 competitors is something special.
    I do hope things take a turn for the better. I dont have the answer either. But I'm just not sure cutting registered matches to one day is it. But not trying anything sure isn't an answer !

  15. #75
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    Apr 2006
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    Kentucky-Home of the Kentucky Wildcats
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    I agree with Jackie. I've said for some time that if you want young blood in the sport, you have to make it feasible for them to participate. Matches that carry out for days require time from work and family, not to mention cost more for meals and motels. It may not be a popular statement but, we fuss about not having young shooters while the game is built to suit retirees with expendable income.

    We have to have ranges, people to run matches and people to shoot in them. Competing for range time at public ranges is a tough deal, even for one open Saturday a month...much less several days. We have to make matches as feasible and friendly to ranges and match directors as possible and consider the output by the people attending, as well.

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